Brad Weimert: Neka Pasquale, I appreciate you carving out time.

Neka Pasquale: Yeah. Thank you so much. Excited to talk to you.

Brad Weimert: Yeah. So, a very good friend of mine, Hal Elrod, is a raving fan of your company.

Neka Pasquale: I love him, he’s so great.

Brad Weimert: He is great. And when he’s into something, he is very vocal about it and very into it, and Urban Remedy is one of those things. You have a super interesting journey. For those that don’t know, Urban Remedy is a– I’m going to let you give a better definition, but a nutrition and food company that has a strong background. You just told me before we got running that you did 46 million last year, on track to do 60 this year. You’re in a litany of different whole foods and have a strong partnership there. But you started as an acupuncturist?

Neka Pasquale: Yes.

Brad Weimert: So, I want to dig in to kind of today and like what life looks like today. But I really love that you refer to it as traditional Chinese medicine and I want to hear the story of kind of how you got from there to start the business because a lot of people have ideas of launching a business and starting it, and coming from an acupuncture background is not common. So, I’m excited to jump in.

Neka Pasquale: Yeah, I mean, I love sharing this part of my story because I think people have an idea or want to do something. And if you don’t have that background in business and you find yourself wanting to get funding, for example, it’s a whole different lingo, it’s a whole different world. And so, how do you educate? I’ve just met so many women founders over the years that had these great ideas and started these incredible companies and got so screwed and ended up getting funding, getting fired, and then their companies eventually failing.

So, my background is in traditional Chinese medicine, herbalism. I had a private practice for about 10 years, and I started just using food as medicine with my patients and saw incredible results. And I think one of the reasons Hal loves the product is because everything is crafted to heal people on the planet. Everything’s certified organic, super clean, minimally processed, colorful. I try to make it really delicious, so I think that’s an important part of it, food, and it’s all grab and go and ready to eat, which makes it really easy.

So, I kind of anyways, over time in my practice, developed these meals and cleansing juices for people that just– sometimes people might have wanted to lose weight. Other people had chronic illness, inflammatory disorders, all the -iteses, prediabetes, type II diabetes, and didn’t know how to get better. And so, through food and lifestyle modifications, really in my practice, I was helping people reverse these pain, inflammatory issues. And it was really inspiring for me because I was like, wow, I didn’t even realize if you change your diet and make some lifestyle modifications like exercising and things like that, lowering stress, that you can actually feel better. And I think a lot of these people were seeing practitioners and doctors who would just put them on a litany of drugs, and they really didn’t feel hopeful. And so, I started doing these retreats and doing this food. And anyways, it just grew. I never created a business plan. I was like, I want to start this food company. It was something that really naturally happened and I really…

Brad Weimert: Well, let me jump in. So, that part of it is I want some clarity on. So, what were people coming to you for in the first place? What was the makeup of your business at that point in time and kind of what were you selling?

Neka Pasquale: When I had my acupuncture practice?

Brad Weimert: Yes. Was it specifically, they were coming for acupuncture, and then you were kind of talking to them about their general health while they were there? That’s what my acupuncturist talked.

Neka Pasquale: Yeah. So, in California, acupuncturists are considered primary care physicians. So, a lot of times, people would come to me and be like, I just found out from my doctor that I have this condition and maybe it was like arthritis. A lot of people use acupuncture for pain syndrome. So, a lot of times, people would come in for pain. People would come in that had just developed type II diabetes or prediabetes, I mean, everything. I mean, I was treating people with HIV at that time. I was treating people with cancer and treating them for side effects of chemotherapy, fertility. And so, there was a whole range of things that I was treating people for.

And what I started doing, I had some amazing mentors that really taught me about the importance of food. And then Chinese medicine food is one of the foundational parts of your overall health and wellness. And so, every diet actually isn’t right for every person. It really depends on your constitution. So, because I love food, I’m Italian and Jewish, and I’ve always loved to cook, I had so much fun in my practice, looking at each person and then figuring out like, what was the diet for them to kind of help them get to a place of balance. And what I really started saying, probably, in the middle of my practice, I had to practice for 11 years, was a lot of people started coming to see me that had these inflammatory disorders, and I started putting together the relationship between the standard American diet and inflammation. And I started doing a lot of research about it and looking at our farming system and big ag and pesticides and toxins and all that kind of stuff. And I just got really, really interested in it and looked at the rise in diabetes and cardiovascular disease.

And so, it was really exciting to kind of put these pieces together. And then when people come to see me, I’d be like, “Okay, let’s have you eat organic, clean food that’s at its real estate.” I mean, it’s very simple. And stop eating the inflammatory things, like stop gluten, highly processed foods, white sugars, all the vegetable oils and alcohol and all of that kind of stuff. And I saw, especially I was doing retreats where I was doing all the food and juices really just for my patients and people that were chronically ill for many, many years, decades after five days had like an 80% reduction in pain and like finally were feeling better, or I treated a lot of people with prediabetes and completely was able to balance their blood sugar levels when they thought they might have to take metformin for the rest of their lives. And it was so inspiring.

Brad Weimert: So, what’s less simple about that? So, you said, you used the phrase, “It’s really simple.” And then you talk about the basics of diet, which I think, conceptually, is very simple. What isn’t simple from a business perspective is the jump from saying, “Hey, I’m going to functionally prescribe you this specific type of diet to producing the food for people and then producing it at scale.” So, at some point you have an acupuncture clinic, you’ve got all these people coming in, and you’re saying, “Hey, you need to change the way that you’re eating. It’ll make you feel better.”

And at some point, you jumped into making it for them and also doing retreats, which is super uncommon in a solo acupuncturist. What was the jump there? And you said it happened organically, but why did you choose to go that direction in the first place?

Neka Pasquale: Yeah. So, what I found is people felt incredible after the retreats, and then I would do a little cooking class and give them skills to try to make the food or to eat, continue eating in this way. And what I found is that people just couldn’t do it. It was like people would do it for a month and then they would– and I was still seeing them because they were my patients, and they would come in and they’re like, “I just can’t. I like buying it, washing it, chopping it, making it. It doesn’t taste as good as when you make it. And it’s so much work. And I can’t maybe make all of this food for my family.” And so, I’m a huge multitasker. And I was like, “I’m just going to do this.” And so, I started doing it a little bit out of my house, and then I started getting commercial kitchens and having a couple people that worked for me that would help me create this food. And so, people were coming and picking up their juices and their food.

And then, I eventually just put up a little website because I was like, oh, then people were telling their friends and people were telling their friends. So, I had a little website where you could just get on and sign up for a cleanse or a food program. And it just grew, I mean, it was insane. I think, one of the turning points for me is guilt. Guilt is like that. G-U-I-L-T. It’s like an online discount. They do a lot of high-end clothes, but sometimes they were doing cleanses. And they had called me, and they were like, “We heard what you’re doing. We love it. And do you want to do some of your cleanses?” And I was like, “Sure.” And I didn’t even think anything about it. And it was just based in the San Francisco Bay area.

And I had given them my cell phone number, and I forgot that I even did it. And all of a sudden, I was at an exercise class and my phone started ringing nonstop. And I’m like, “What is going on?” And they sold out of the cleanses and like, I don’t know, five minutes or something like that. And then they called and they said, “Do you want to do more?” And I said, “Yeah.” Anyway, so that was really an impetus for me to see how many people were interested in this. And I completely overextended myself. And that really was kind of like the turning point for me where I was like, there’s a huge demand. And it was a total sh*t show because I couldn’t fulfill the orders. I was writing things out by hand. I was delivering the products with a couple friends to San Francisco.

Anyways, long story short, everything just kind of blew up from there. And I was working in commercial kitchens with a few employees and I had gotten to a point where I just decided that I was pregnant with my son and then actually, when I started Urban Remedy and when I was like six months pregnant, I was like, I just need to take a break from my practice, which was a really difficult decision because I was treating really sick people all the time, and I felt like it was difficult being pregnant, like not wanting to. There was an intensity to it that was a little bit difficult.

And so, anyway, I stopped my practice and I was like, “I’m just going to do this.” This will be a fun thing for me to do. I was having so much fun making the food, and then I very naively was like, I just need my own place where I can make this because I kept getting kicked out of the commercial kitchens because we had like a juicer and it would explode on the ceiling. And it was just that we’d make a huge mess and people would always, the little kitchens, didn’t like it.

And so, a guy that was helping me, I was like, I just had to figure out how I can build out a kitchen. I didn’t really have any money to do it. And this friend of mine had gone to LA and told the small– they’re called Science Inc and they’re based in Santa Monica. What I was doing, and they called me, and they’re like, “We love what you’re doing and we want to invest in this.” And at that point, long story short, I was wanting to get divorced. It was like a year or two later and I was like, wow. And so, they were like, “We’ll give you $1 million.”

And at that point, I was like, “A million dollars.” I was like, “Oh, my God. I could build out this whole kitchen. And I’m never going to need any more money. And this is just going to be the fantasy of what I want to do.” And so, I took the money, wasn’t a great deal because like I said before, my background is in Chinese medicine and healing. And so, when I look back at the deal that I made then, it was like, “I would never do that now.”

And so, I always mention that because I always share with people like, if you don’t have that background, get an incredible lawyer before you sign anything or you understand equity and all of that. And so, I got the million dollars. It was great because I could take a salary. And I built out this kitchen and I couldn’t believe it. But within six months, we outgrew the kitchen. After taking so long to build this place and then I had to rent different little places where we shipped from. Because at that point then, we decided to ship nationwide so people can order juices and cleanses and stuff, and we would ship it and. And we’d never really got our foundation to where it needed to be to ship. We just were like, let’s just do this.

And it was kind of like, I was the CEO, the procurement, head of procurement, head of HR. I was doing everything on my own. I had maybe five employees. And it was the most incredible time and super creative. And I made so many mistakes, it was insane. But I learned so much because I learned how to do everything. And I wouldn’t change that for the world. It was a really, really incredible experience. But then got to the point where I was like, we need to get our foundation better, went through the million dollars rather quickly, and then needed more funding. So, then raised probably, it was like a year later, maybe even less, another 5 million. And at that point, I was like, “I need a CEO” because I was getting really burned out. I had written a book during that time. It was too many things, and I was a single mom. And so…

Brad Weimert: Let me ask you about that phase. So, you brought on $1 million, which, if you don’t have $1 million or millions of dollars, seems like a tremendous amount of money. And it is astounding how quickly you can deploy capital when you are growing something. When you did that, I want to hit on kind of like what that phase was like, but the first thing that I want to hit on is you said the terms were bad and you would never do that today. Looking back at that, though, clearly, that was the launchpad for growing the business. Would you have elected to skip taking that money at all given the terms that were offered, if you had to redo it?

Neka Pasquale: That’s such a good question. There’s always a balance between growing your company and being able to grow and then how much equity do you– the real sweet spot would be like, if you didn’t need equity and you could fund your business with your own money, right? Because then you’re in control and you can make the decisions. But I didn’t have that. And there were so many reasons that I needed the money to have freedom in my life and to build out this place. So, I just feel like it was my journey and I accept it, and I fix my equity after, I learned. And then when I got the next round of funding, I made sure that I had a great attorney, but I couldn’t have done it without that. So, I don’t regret it.

And I met some incredible people, like some of our investors were Brazilian. And actually, part of the deal was that they opened an Urban Remedy in Brazil. And so, they had all the same recipes, the same branding. And they’re amazing, like, they’re incredible. So, it was really fun to get to know them and see how similar we were, even though we’re from these different countries. And I guess, if I was going to do something different, I was just telling somebody when I was making that first deal, I talked to a couple different people that had a very strong business background and had their own very successful businesses. And I asked them their opinion.

And I remember at that time, both of them, the advice they gave me was like, well, you’re an acupuncturist, so you should just– basically, kind of dumbing me down a little bit. Like, well, you’re so lucky they want to give you $1 million. You should take it. It’s a great deal, which was really poor advice. And so, I think, part of being a woman founder is really surrounding yourself with really smart people, especially when you don’t have the background. I mean, there’s a ton of women founders that do have that background that speak the language and understand how it works. But I think there’s a lot that don’t.

So, I think that it’s very intimidating. I would go to board meetings in the beginning, I’d be the only woman there. And I had no idea what anybody was talking about. I’d be sitting at the table and I literally, I mean, I didn’t know, I didn’t even know what ROI meant. And I would get on my phone and Google it. And so, being in that situation is really intimidating, and also figuring out like, this is my vision and I want to continue to keep the vision and my esthetic. And when you’re dealing with people that have invested in your company, sometimes it’s really difficult to do that, and you really have to learn to use your voice. And even if you sound like a bitch, which isn’t being a bitch, but sometimes when you’re a woman and you are firm about what you want, it feels like that.

And so, it’s a balance and it’s something to learn. And I’ve talked to a lot of really successful women entrepreneurs who feel the same way. So, I think it’s a thing to understand and get advice from other women to help support you. But I was lucky because Cindy Crawford came on in those early days, not right in the beginning. And she did join my board. And when I was…

Brad Weimert: After the million-dollar raise, but before the 5 million?

Neka Pasquale: Yes. And we had such a great…

Brad Weimert: How did you make that connection? I mean, that’s a fairly random celebrity endorsement.

Neka Pasquale: I know. We met through a mutual friend, and she just loved what I was doing, and we just had a great connection. She’s like, “I just really want to shine the light on you and support you and what you’re doing.” And so, it was such a dream because I was like, I just got $1 million and I was so excited about that. And then I met Cindy and she joined the board and we had this great relationship. And so, having or would she join the board, it was great because she is such a strong business person and she’s so smart and confident, and it was really great experience to be on the board with another woman that exuded that. And so, that really helped me in that beginning part of my journey.

Brad Weimert: That’s awesome. So, she was on the board. What kind of role did she play in the company? Was it purely a meeting once a month, once a quarter? Was it connections? Everybody kind of comes with different values when they join a board.

Neka Pasquale: Yeah. She was just kind of shining the light on what I was doing and like, our mission and vision. So, we did a couple videos together and I created a meal plan for her back then. And yeah, it was really very simple. And it was great. And she’s great. Yeah.

Brad Weimert: So, where were you in terms of size or scope when you felt like you needed to raise more money? And how did you approach raising it?

Neka Pasquale: The 5 million? Do you mean that one? We had just grown so fast. We grew 100% every year for the first probably five years. And so, it was complete mayhem. It was like trying to keep on top of the orders and like, what is the right materials for shipping? And I mean, it was really basic stuff, but we couldn’t do– we couldn’t even put time and energy into that because we were growing so fast that we were just constantly kind of making up and just trying to rush to get things done because we didn’t have that strong foundation yet.

And it was really interesting with the next money. I was supposed to meet these guys in LA and I got really sick, I got the flu. I had a quick Zoom. They were so bummed at me because they were like, these guys maybe put this money in. And I’m like, I’m so sorry. I was like, sweating and I had a fever. So, I got on with them, had maybe a 15-minute meeting. I remember feeling dizzy and just, but tried my best to share what we were doing. And the next day, they were like, “Yeah, we want to put in the money.” It was just such a miracle.

And so, with that round, like I said, I was able to hire our first CEO after me, Paul Coletta. He has worked with me for about 10 years. He just recently is not the CEO anymore. And we just had such a great relationship. I mean, he came in and really aligned with the mission and vision and I did think in the beginning, I was like, “Oh, I’m hiring the CEO now. Everything’s going to change. And I’m not going to have to do X, Y, and Z anymore.” But when you’re the founder and you’re so ingrained in all the different areas, that doesn’t really happen. But it was great to have that support.

And also, somebody who could figure out like how we’re going to scale from here and how to allocate funds and somebody who would do all the work that needs to be done for the board because I just hate doing that. That’s something I just am not interested in in any way, shape, or form. So, it was great. And then over time, we hired more people that were experts in their field in terms of like procurement.

Brad Weimert: Well, let’s hang on the CEO part because when you’re funded, I think that entrepreneurs that are funded tend to approach things a little bit differently and for good reason. When you’re bootstrapped and you are just trying to use cash flow to fund these new hires, decision making is different. Process can be different. But the mental desire to have somebody better than you running a certain part of your business probably isn’t different. What was your thought process? What point did you reach in the business where you thought, I need to get a CEO in here to do this? Did you feel like you weren’t performing at the right level? Or did you feel like there was so much more to grow? Kind of where was your head when you decided you needed to hire a CEO?

Neka Pasquale: Yeah. For me, it was a really scary thing because I didn’t want to give up control of my baby and what I had created. But I got to a point where I was getting frustrated because I was doing everything. Because I was doing everything, I could not do what I needed to do, which is create these recipes for Urban Remedy and kind of be the voice of the company and really talk about like what we’re doing, what makes us different, and who we are because I would sit in front of the computer eight hours a day trying to do all the things that you do. You know what I mean? Like, how do you fire this person? And how do you find carrots that are less expensive than the carrots that you’re getting? Or how do you make sure you’re getting what you need on time and the right packaging? I was doing that 24/7.

And so, I realized, like, if I continue on this path, number one, I was getting burnout. I was going to be burnout. And number two, I wasn’t going to be able to do what I’m passionate about, which is why I started the company. And well, I met Paul through a mutual friend, Keith Belling, who started popchips. And he was like, “I just think you guys need to meet, you’re both Italian and I don’t know, you might have this thing. And he was working at the Melt in San Francisco, and I went into his office and he had the fanciest office I had ever seen. And I was like, “Oh, my God, who is this guy?” Like thinking, and our office was like a crappy little, I mean, we were on card tables.

And he started coming over to– I had my store down in San Rafael and eating the food and like drinking. He’s like, I really like this. And then he’d leave and then he’d be back two days later and be like, “Let’s just talk.” And he was just really interested in what we were doing. And then eventually, it’s like, it was maybe a couple weeks later, he was like, “I’d really been thinking about like, I want to be your CEO.” And I was thinking, “God, why would he want to be our CEO?” He has the nicest office I’ve ever seen. That company has so much funding. It was insane. And I was like, “All right.” And we had just a really good connection. Like, there was something magical about our connection. And so, I was like, yeah, and then we raise that $5 million and it just happened. But it also was scary because when you’re the CEO and you let somebody else be the CEO, you’re kind of relinquishing a certain amount of control.

Brad Weimert: For sure. Have you asked him that question? Why did he want to be the CEO?

Neka Pasquale: Oh, yeah. He, I think, saw the potential and the authenticity in what I had created. And I think that’s kind of the magic sauce of Urban Remedy. Urban Remedy kind of has always had a mind of its own. Like, I mean, obviously, I started it, but I think if you look at our culture, for example, everybody that works for us is so excited about coming to work and really believes that our mission and vision of like healing people on the planet. So, there’s a magic that comes with that and feeling like, we’re all working together for this greater good and this greater mission of really helping people heal.

And I think, one of the things I love is talking, being in a store or talking to customers that use our food in their healing process if somebody is going through chemo or somebody that just might just want to lose weight and is feeling not good in their bodies. And so, it’s really inspiring to be able to offer that to people. And on the other side of that, support organic farming and the health of the soil because it’s such an important thing that we need to do right now to heal the planet. So, I think that’s what excited Paul, was like, “Wow, this is just a really authentic business that’s really founded this love and care for people in the planet.” And I think that really just resonated with him. And he kind of needed something like that in his life at that point.

Brad Weimert: Got it. So, at this point, you just mentioned that you had a store, but also, it sounds like up until this point of raising the 5 million, the predominant product was shipping cleanses, so bottles of juice or…

Neka Pasquale: It was both. So, I built out a kitchen, a small production kitchen, and then the front of the kitchen was a storefront. So, you could come in and pick up your juices and grab all your stuff. And we just thought, I mean, people would come in and be like, it was a terrible look. I mean, we still have it. It’s not a great location. And people come and they’d be like, “Oh, good luck.” We’ll see what happens, like, nothing’s ever made it here. And I was like, all right, well, this is just going to be for people to pick stuff up. It’s really a production kitchen, so who cares?

But it was so busy and people kept coming in. We couldn’t keep up with product. And so, we had this local store where we would deliver and people could pick up their food and juice. And then, we were shipping nationwide. And that’s really where the show started because it was like, if you’re shipping something that needs to be refrigerated, shipped overnight, you have to have the perfect box, the perfect packaging, it’s really expensive. You have to really…

Brad Weimert: Well, that was where my question was, right? It’s one thing to ship a beverage, period, because they’re heavy as hell. And so, the cost per unit is a problem. But then if you start shipping food or expiring products, it’s a totally different thing. So, was it just juice and was it all overnight? Or were you shipping food from the beginning as well?

Neka Pasquale: We were shipping food too. It was all overnight. And our biggest challenge then and today is that we make food that has a short shelf life because good food goes bad fast. And so, the challenge has always been like, even at Whole Foods, our top selling items are our salads, and those have a six or seven-day shelf life. And so, how do you stay in stock with these products and have minimal purge, right? Because you can imagine we’ve gone through periods where we have purge. So, I mean, we give away the food, but when you’re not making money on it, you purge it. It’s beautiful, expensive, organic ingredients, and so, we’ve been trying to crack the code on fresh for the last 10 years. And it’s really difficult. And I understand why people don’t do it.

And it really makes sense when you look at the grocery store and everything has extremely long shelf life, the food, like crackers and cookies, and now, the way we make bread and all of these things. It’s great for the companies, right? Because the longer shelf life that you have, the more time you have to sell your product. But kind of the unhealthier, besides like dried grains and beans and things like that, for pre-made food, it’s really mostly the most unhealthy food that has a longer shelf life. And so, anyways, it’s a challenge. So, it was a challenge then. And it’s still a challenge today.

Brad Weimert: Yeah. So, Easy Pay Direct is my company and it’s digital, right? We functionally are a software sales and service company from an operational perspective. We facilitate online payments. But when I look at adding the layer of expiring goods…

Neka Pasquale: Oh, my God, yeah.

Brad Weimert: It’s a nightmare.

Neka Pasquale: Totally.

Brad Weimert: I just think that’s like this crazy additional complexity to running a business that so many business models don’t have. It’s clear from talking to you that what led you down this path is a passion for the outcomes. But certainly, if you’re looking for the optimal business model to make the most money, adding expiring goods into the mix probably isn’t at the top of us.

Neka Pasquale: Oh, no, it’s totally. And we’re insane, right? Because we have a huge SKU set. I mean, let’s say we have 80 SKUs or more, right? We have that many SKUs. And on top of it, a lot of them have a short shelf life. For us, a long shelf life would be two months, like for a cookie or something that’s refrigerated that can lasts in a refrigerator and whatever. But can you imagine if that’s your longest shelf life product? And so, it’s very challenging. And yeah, but I mean people love it. And we have these kiosks and Whole Foods and we have…

Brad Weimert: So, tell me about that phase. So, you start with this one kitchen and you’re also going direct to consumer, shipping overnight. That independently direct to consumer, it’s a channel, but it’s a business model. And opening the door to retail is a totally different business model, totally different channel. Did you deliberately think about expanding into other locations? How did that relationship come to be?

Neka Pasquale: Well, this is going to sound even more insane because now that I’m thinking about it, instead of just keeping the complexity low and being like, maybe we’re going to have retail stores or whatever, we had an online presence where we’re shipping. We’d opened 20 more retail stores throughout California.

Brad Weimert: Independently that you owned, that you staff?

Neka Pasquale: Yes.

Brad Weimert: Oh, wow.

Neka Pasquale: We did that. And then we started the Whole Foods kiosk and we tested that and a few Whole Foods, and then that started going. So, we were multichannel. So, talk about complexity of product along with complexity of– you can imagine those are three completely different business models. And so, we were doing all of it. And so, now, if I look back, I think that was a mistake that took a lot of time and energy because if you’re not focusing on one thing and doing it well, I think that– but I was so excited to ship and be able to get people this product that lived outside of California. And I love having the stores because they were this presence where people could understand the brand more and we could do things from there. And people, the stores were doing great.

And then this Whole Foods thing came up, which was at first, I was like, “Oh, I don’t know. That is not going to work.” And then we did it. And then it was, obviously, the most exciting part of the business, which is where we’re really focused now. But yeah, it was a lot of complex, it was very complex. And the Whole Foods thing came out, Paul had a meeting with Rob Twyman, and they were like, Paul’s like, “It’d be really cool to, like, what if we tried this, like just an Urban Remedy branded thing?” And he was like, “Yeah, let’s try it out.” And we tried it. It did really well. And then we expanded it in a test in SoCal. We started in NorCal and it did even better down there. And now, we’re national, we’re on the whole eastern seaboard. We’re in the Carolinas. We’re going into Austin and Chicago. And so, I never dreamed that we would have this, but it’s really interesting and unique, and we feel very lucky for our partnership with Whole Foods.

And so, after we got the $5 million, I found a new, like 30,000 square-foot production while we had to build it out as a production facility and offices. So, that’s when we really had nicer offices, not even that nice, but nicer offices and a huge production facility. And then we ended up having to rent another location where we just did shipping out of there, where all the shipping happened, like, all of it, whether it was to Whole Foods or shipping direct to the consumer.

Brad Weimert: So, you talked about 20 locations, which growing 20 locations that your staffing is, I mean to call it a project is horribly understating that. And you said that was, I don’t know if you called it a mistake, but you said maybe not ideal. But that opens the door for the question, great, it’s not ideal, but you also value the Whole Foods relationship and that was the genesis of a tremendous amount of growth. So, in that moment, do you think that you would have been better off just driving your own locations and not accepting that relationship? Or was the chaos just a part of the journey for you?

Neka Pasquale: I think, when you look back, I mean, if COVID never happened, it’d be a whole different story because everything was amazing. And then COVID happened and nobody was going into retail stores anymore. And we had this great store in Venice, for example, in a great location. And that whole area, like everybody went out of business, and then there were so much crime in this location. And it’s like, then we couldn’t get out of the lease. And so, during COVID, people wanted to be able to order things to be delivered to their homes. And we did develop an app to do that. But it was very, very difficult for retail.

And so, if COVID never happened, I think the retail channel would be great and thriving. But also within Whole Foods, they were having their own delivery issues with their prime, they hadn’t fully vetted and they didn’t know COVID was going to happen. So, if you went on to try to order delivery from Whole Foods, it was like maybe once a week, you could get a delivery during COVID. And so, that’s primarily where our product was. And people didn’t want to go to the store and they couldn’t get it. And so, if COVID never happened, I’d probably have a different answer. But because of Covid, and I do think the Whole Foods model is really the most scalable and exciting to be able to partner with them and get this food to as many people as we can.

But I think any time you’re doing anything, the more simple you keep it, when you’re doing something complex, the better. When I look back, I’m like, if we just focused on maybe direct to consumer and the Whole Foods kiosks, we would have saved all that time and energy putting those into those two channels that we put into retail. We probably would have been more successful. But I don’t regret it because it’s all just part of the journey. And like I said, there is something about having a retail store where people can really understand the brand, and then people could come in and talk to the people working there about like, what does this mean? Or like, what’s the right product to get? And so, there’s something really interesting and valuable to that.

I think, I’ve learned over the years that I’m the kind of person that wants to do everything, and I could spread myself a little bit too thin. And so, now, in retrospect, I’m like, I get it from a business perspective, simple is better. Like, focusing on one thing well is better than spreading yourself thin and not being able to do all the things well, right?

Brad Weimert: As a fellow control person, I understand. So, to that end, you brought the CEO on, and that seems like a pretty significant shift in the business relative to your roles and responsibilities. And you started to talk about bringing on other experts in their own areas. What was a significant shift that you had to make when you brought the CEO on to allow that growth to happen?

Neka Pasquale: Well, I feel really lucky because we just had such a great relationship. I mean, he told me from the beginning, “Neka, I promise you that I will always make decisions with you as a partner and that your mission and vision is always going to stay at the forefront of what we do.” And at first, I was like, “Well, we’ll see.” But he really kept his word to that. And so, we really did work as a partnership. And so, that was really special. He had such respect for me and what I created. And so, I had so many other people say, “I want a CEO like Paul. You guys just work so well together.” And I mean, it was just a real blessing. So, I think maybe in 10 years, we had two disagreements. We really worked as, like, a united front.

And he really helped build this incredible culture. That was really one of his strong suits. And then running the business side of things. And then we hired a CFO. I mean, it’s like you can’t just hire a CEO and think everything. You really need a lot of different people. Like, I had a procurement, head of food safety and quality and a great accountant and a CFO. I mean, once you get to a certain level, it’s critical to have people that are experts in all of those fields. And so, over time, we built and some people came and weren’t the right fit, and other people came and were a great fit. And it’s just kind of going through that.

And sometimes, people would come on that really didn’t get the mission and vision and didn’t fit in culturally. And you could find that out pretty quickly, and then learning like how do you deal with those situations. But I would say right now, we’ve got an amazing team, a really strong team of like-minded individuals, and that we’re all just like working so hard right now to get to where we need to go this year, which is really exciting.

Brad Weimert: So, speaking of that, my notes say that you’re in 300-plus Whole Foods. Is that accurate?

Neka Pasquale: Yes.

Brad Weimert: So, 300-plus Whole Foods. You said 46 million last year, but on target to do 60 this year, which is a huge jump. What are the plans for the future?

Neka Pasquale: We are just laser focused on opening more kiosks in Whole Foods and just doing that. Well, our biggest complaint from the consumer is we go to your kiosk and they are not stocked well. I drove all the way to Whole Foods that I wanted my favorite like Mojo Bar or whatever it is and it’s not there. And that is what we’re really trying to fix. We’ve been trying to fix the last couple of years. It’s very complex because you can imagine these are all like mini stores and they’re all over the country. And how do you monitor the inventory in the stores?

And sometimes, Whole Foods employees are supposed to put it out. Sometimes, we work with other people like Dirty Hands. And so, it’s very complex again. And so, we are laser focused on that, like doing that well, and opening a certain amount more chaos this next year. And also, one thing that we probably haven’t done super well because we’ve all been so busy, is like, how do we really tell our story and who we are so people really understand what this food is and what’s the usage and why we’re doing what we’re doing? And that’s something I’m really trying to put more energy into this year.

Brad Weimert: Is there a path outside of Whole Foods? How long is Whole Foods the core focus?

Neka Pasquale: We have this relationship with Whole Foods and they have been an investor as well, which has been a great blessing. So, we have a really good relationship with them. And then, we’re in a lot of other grocers, like Natural Grocers, and more high-end grocers. I can’t say who, but we have a couple. We’re going into some other retailers that we’re really excited about, hopefully, in the next few months that’s going to transpire. And so, we’ve even tested out, like we’re in some safe ways. We’ve gone into Costco before. And so, one of the things is like our food is obviously more expensive because it’s organic and it’s clean food. How do we get our food to more people that can afford it? And how do we do that? So, trying to work with Costco or places like that to be able to do that is one of the things that we’re working on as well. But yeah, Whole Foods and other grocers, we’re in a bunch of other grocers all over, and there’s a whole list on our website, Mollie Stone’s, the Good Earth, like a bunch of just specialty grocers.

Brad Weimert: Well, before we wrap up here, when we first started, you were talking about kind of some of the unique challenges being a female founder getting going, specifically one that doesn’t have a business background. What advice do you have for female founders that are just getting a business off the ground?

Neka Pasquale: I would say the number one thing, if you are looking for funding and you want to go that route, is to get the best attorney that you can find to help you navigate anything before you sign it or your deal and really understand equity and what it looks like and what the opportunities are. There’s so many different ways to do things. I did a podcast with the founder of Juice Beauty, and she was like, I decided from the very beginning that everyone is going to be treated the same, that invest me, every investor. There’s going to be no different groupings where somebody gets their money before somebody else. And I was like, wow, I didn’t even know that’s possible. That’s so amazing. But you did that.

And so, maybe talking to other people who have already been through it and listening to their advice, but always having a good attorney, listening to your gut, working with people that you really trust and that value you, and also, just making sure that your employment agreement and contract is where it needs to be and protecting you in different ways. And that’s really a challenge and it can be really difficult. When you’re presented with something like that, that’s like 20 pages long and you don’t understand half of what it means. So, then you have to hire an attorney for many thousands of dollars to go through, and then it’s back and forth. And what is this? And what does this mean if this happens or you sell at this price or whatever? I mean, there’s so many intricacies, but it’s so important to invest in that, so that you really understand what you’re getting into and what your goals are and meeting your goals and objectives and making sure it’s something that you feel that you can do.

And then working with people that you trust and that are aligned. I’m really lucky because all of the investors that we’ve worked with over the years are very mission aligned and really believe in what we’re doing and are excited. We’re a certified B Corp. And one of our investors, our initial investors helped us with that. So, really working with people that believe in you and what you’re doing, and there’s so many different kind of people out there and you could hear all different kinds of stories, but just really protecting yourself, I think, on the foundational level, is incredibly important.

Brad Weimert: Well, one of the things that I heard you say that I think is really relevant, and you referenced it as being lucky, but another way to look at that is that you have elected to get into business with people that are in direct alignment with what your vision and values are.

Neka Pasquale: Yes.

Brad Weimert: And that’s significant and not to be understated, I think there are a lot of opportunities that pop up that are sexy for entrepreneurs. They seem sexy financially from a growth trajectory, but they’re misaligned with the internal values. The person you’re getting in business with isn’t quite in line with you.

Neka Pasquale: Totally.

Brad Weimert: And sometimes those shake out well, and sometimes they’re horrible.

Neka Pasquale: Yeah. And really, when I said before about having the same goals and objectives because you can have somebody that wants to invest in your company and they might be thinking, I want to be out of here in a year or two. So, if you need to meet X, Y, and Z, and if you don’t, X, Y, and Z is going to happen, or what value is your investor going to add to your company? Sometimes, it’s just the money is great, right? The investment is really important. But other times there’s people with strategic connections that can really help you and your company. So, really, looking at that. And then I always say, like talking to people that have worked with that specific investment group and how they treated those people and what had the outcomes been? And doing your due diligence, I think, that’s really important.

Brad Weimert: That’s good. Neka, if people want to find out more about you or Urban Remedy or wherever you want to point them, where should they go?

Neka Pasquale: Our website is UrbanRemedy.com. It’s really easy. Yeah. And you can order online and it tells you where our stores are and what Whole Foods locations we’re in. And I also have a podcast that’s really based in everything health and wellness and eating healthy and lifestyle. And it’s all there on the website.

Brad Weimert: I love it. Thank you so much. I appreciate you carving out the time.

Neka Pasquale: Thank you. Thank you so much. It was so great to talk to you.

Brad Weimert: Bye.