Brad Weimert: Jason Wojo, appreciate you carving out time this morning, man.

Jason Wojo: Yeah, bro, that’s good.

Brad Weimert: So, you have an agency, and I’m going to give the stats that you put out there, which are 1,300 businesses that you’ve helped get to six figures, 50 plus that you’ve got into seven or eight figures in revenue by running their traffic and/or funnels, generating over 125 million for them. And the agency now is an eight-figure agency, which is kind of the genesis of the conversation. And I want to clarify a stat because very often, agencies use that generated for client stat and it’s usually clearly articulated, but it’s worth noting because people get their panties in a bunch about the difference between the two.

Jason Wojo: Yeah, yeah. Like, the thing that we had to do was we use Hyros to track all that. So, like, we have all of our client funnels combined into an agency account, and then we can track the revenue. And also, we have like this Monday, it’s like a whole system that we have for Monday where we can see ROAS’s, and then it adds up all the columns. So, we’re able to track it. I haven’t updated it in probably four months, so it’s a little bit higher, but I just don’t watch it that meticulously.

But the biggest thing that we’ve been able to do is a lot of agencies niche down, which like I get for system reasons, but if you’re really good at marketing, why are you so niched? So, that’s where I was like, “All right. Well, we spent 30-something million dollars on paid ads across all of our accounts. And that’s on my Facebook business tools.” So, 30-something million, I think it’s like 33, and we get 120, 130 million already. That’s a four ROAS.

So, we’re able to get a 4 to 1 ROAS universally in 90-plus niches and verticals. And that’s just because of all the things that I had to put on paper and all the systems and all the processes and all the things that I did for training and all that that we poured into the team. That’s what allowed us to really jump to eight figures was having the expandability of like, hey, we can service as many business owners as we want. Obviously, there’s some niches we don’t work with, but at the same time, it’s still universal. We know if you’re an e-comm store selling beauty, the same things we do with you or the same thing that we do in an e-comm store selling clothing or whatever the case may be. Or if you’re a coach consultant, you’re running a webinar, you’re running a VSL, you’re doing an event funnel, whatever it looks like, we know what systems work because we’ve done it already.

Brad Weimert: Digging. Well, let’s dive into that. So, I want to get to today, but let’s start as I like to with the beginning. How did you get into the agency business in the first place?

Jason Wojo: Yeah. So, I was in culinary school right out of high school for a year. And I was really just rebellious when I was in college. Dude, it was my first sense of freedom ever. My parents sheltered me when I was a kid. Like, “You can’t go out past eight. If you’re going to go out, you’re not letting your friends drive you. Their parents can pick you up because I don’t trust 18-year-old driving.” I was very sheltered. And I’m not going to lie, dude, a lot of the reasons why I didn’t become successful faster was because I was so shy and introverted. And I was afraid to network and talk to people. And that really didn’t help me much.

And then when I went out to college, bro, I went ballistic. I was partying like never before. I was drinking, it was crazy. And I finally got out of my shell. And when that was happening, I started being rebellious, not in the sense of my behaviors, but thinking outside the box. So, that translated into me like going, I had Pokemon cards inside of my trunk in college, and I took those, started flipping them on eBay. And I was making money passively in college, like 200 bucks a week, nothing insane, but to a college kid, that’s a lot of money, 200 bucks a week.

So, I’m doing that. I’m going out and having fun. And dude, I’m on the internet more than ever. And I saw an ad from Tai Lopez, and it was for the $997 SMMA course. And I grabbed that. And like, I’m not the one to be like, oh, that’s the only reason why I was doing well. It’s not about that. It’s just like, I took those principles and it was a building block to build a foundation. So, I started getting some clients locally doing seven-day free trials. I got some barbershops, restaurants, all this stuff. And it was working, like I got eight people that were paying me 300 bucks a month after the trial, and I was making two to three grand a month with the other jobs that I had too.

And I wound up dropping out of culinary school, went home, went to business school because I understood my sense was a lot better, like I was better at just doing business instead of cooking. The only reason why I went to culinary school was because I was working at a cafe when I was a kid, and my boss was like, “Yo, dude, you should just go to culinary school. You’re going to know how to do that, so just do that.” And I was like, “All right, well, I know self-awareness. I might as well just listen as somebody else.”

So, when I went back to business school, I was just living at home. I was just living at home, in a car. I had three jobs. I was playing college tennis. That was what made it more affordable because I got a scholarship. That’s the one thing I was always good at, was basketball and tennis. And dude, that was really exciting for me because it let me stayed decently fit and active. And then…

Brad Weimert: How do you feel about pickleball?

Jason Wojo: Dude, that’s hard. I’m not going to lie. I’ve tried it, and I’m like, “Dude, this sh*t is so difficult.” It’s way different than tennis. Yeah, dude.

Brad Weimert: Yeah. Pickleball, obviously, it’s like the weird hybrid of ping pong and tennis.

Jason Wojo: Yeah. And then, I started getting more clients. And then I get out of business school and my dad’s like, “Yo, are you going to pay us rent because you’re going to stay home, right?” And I’m like, “No, I do not want to live in New York anymore. I hate this entire state.” So, my dad’s like, “All right, well, pay us rent, or you can get out.” And I was like, “All right, well, I don’t want to stay here, so I guess, I’m going to get out.”

So, I found a place on Facebook Marketplace in Florida, and it was in Orlando-Oviedo area, which is right by UCF, which is a huge college there. I was living in this college house with a bunch of college kids in this room in the corner, paying like $750 a month. I was like, “All right, if I’m going to pay my parents 600 bucks, I could probably find a place for 750, and it’d be a lot nicer of an area.” So, that’s why I decided to move.

And then from there, dude, it was just only agency. From there, it was service businesses and all of that. And then at the same time, I had a client who saw videos of me on Instagram, and they sent me a bunch of apparel in the mail. And I made these videos with these shirts I had, like Hustle, Patience, Legacy on them. I was doing motivational videos at the time. And I made these videos and sent it to him. He was like, “Dude, these outperformed all of our ads.” And I was like, what the hell is he talking about? Like, “I don’t understand what you mean.” Because, dude, with the service business owners, I wasn’t running ads, I was just posting for them on social media. I wasn’t doing these ads yet.

And that’s when I learned Facebook ads. He’s like, “Yo, dude, I want you to make these videos for us, and I want you to run our funnel.” I’m like, “A funnel. What the hell is that?” And then he’s like, “I want you to do emails.” And I was just thrown into this mess. And that’s what I had to learn really, really, really, really quickly. And I was excited.

Brad Weimert: So, at that point, you were in business school?

Jason Wojo: No. Sorry. I was in my junior to senior year. I was like leaving.

Brad Weimert: Got it.

Jason Wojo: Yeah, dude, that was when we took that clothing brand. It was called Hustle Island. We took it, like, 21,000 paying customers in 11 months, and then he wound up selling it. And then I took all the skills. And then I was like, “All right, I get to get out of the house, and then I’m going to Orlando now.” So, I then knew how to run ads. I was doing a free plus shipping funnel with that brand. So, that’s how we got a lot of the buyers was a free plus shipping offer. And then I was learning upsells and downsells and ClickFunnels and ActiveCampaign, and that’s when I was able to take those skills and be like, okay, I’m more comfortable leaving the house now because I know this stuff. I can do pretty well with it.

Brad Weimert: So, initially, you found a Tai Lopez’s course on social media marketing agency, SMMA. And you were basically just doing, we’ll call it organic content that you’re posting on social. And that was the whole model, right? It was, hey, for 300 bucks a month, I’ll do your social for you.

Jason Wojo: Yeah.

Brad Weimert: And at some point, you’ve got one client that says, “Hey, we like the videos are performing well,” and that is the catalyst for you to learn how to do the ad thing. Where did you go to learn the skill sets?

Jason Wojo: Honestly, it was just spending other people’s money. And that was a cool advantage of having an agency was that you were spending your client’s money to get answers. So, when I was spending the money for Hustle Island, we were spending two grand a day on Facebook. I thought I had a huge money block because Greg was like, “Yo, dude, we’re going to spend money on these ad campaigns.” So, I’m like, “Okay, like 10 bucks a day?” He’s like, “No, Wojo, we spend way more than that.” And I was like, “Oh, okay, like 100 bucks.” He’s like, “No, dude, we spend two grand a day.” And I was like, “Holy sh*t, dude, that’s a lot of money.” And I thought that that was a limiting belief for me. I was scared to click the thing in the ads manager and put 2,000 daily. Like, that was really scary for me.

And I learned a lot there, dude. If you’re spending two grand a day for 11 months straight, you learn a sh*t ton about ads, like real fast. And then we started doing Google Search retargeting. I learned phrase match and exact match and all that stuff. And I was like, “All right, I’m pretty good at this.” And yeah, dude, that’s honestly how I learned. It wasn’t through like courses or free YouTube videos. It was all just through spending other people’s money to learn, which was a great advantage.

Brad Weimert: So, that is an advantage to running an agency. And it’s also a– if I’m hiring an agency or when I’m assessing agencies, I’m looking for experience. So, this particular client, what gave them confidence to hand you the reins on 60 grand a month to go f*ck around?

Jason Wojo: I mean, dude, the crazy thing with Greg was that he was just so open to letting people learn. And that wasn’t his only business. Greg is somebody who’s not on the internet. Like, he hates the internet. And dude, he runs like a real business in Miami right now where he runs a bunch of embroidery factories and shops. Because he took all the stuff we did with the clothing brand, he just built his own embroidery company. And he does like 300 million a year now.

And he’s like, “Dude, I hate the internet. I hate all this stuff. I don’t want to sell products anymore. I hate people on the internet. I’m just going to run a real business.” And I was like, “All right, I mean, sick, dude. Have fun. Let me know if you need help.” But his biggest thing was like, “Dude, I just want to give people a chance.” And his whole thing was like, “When I was first coming up, I wanted people to give me a chance too.” And I was like, “Oh, dude, I appreciate that.” It was kind of this mutual thing, like, he kind of saw something in himself or in me that he saw when he was a kid. And it was just like this mutual respect thing.

Also, man, the same principles come into my life now that I did see back then, which was back then, dude, I was the one pushing the buttons and they were happier with that. And when people pick an agency right now, what they don’t realize is that you should really pre-vet the team in the back and like, who is the leadership team? So, when you get thrown to some agencies, and I’m not saying we’re the best, but dude, I spent a lot of money on payroll to spend money on US people. A lot of these agencies will throw you to some person from Spain or whatever, and they pay them four or five grand a month, right?

Dude, all of our strategy leads are making a lot more than that because we’re actually paying people what they’re worth. And I think that a lot of people get thrown to an agency, and these people who are in there don’t have a lot of corporate experience and agency models, or they don’t have a lot of marketing experience to do direct response. And they’re also not being trained a ton. They’re just thrown into an ecosystem because the business owner wants to make a good margin, and they’re like, “Oh, if I pay someone 750 a month to manage an account, I charge four grand, I’m good.” But dude, you can’t keep the four grand a month because the client’s pissed and they leave.

The other thing is, of recent, I’ve been just working with a lot of more private clients that yes, I have to charge more for, but dude, they’re not leaving because I’m the one pushing the buttons. So, it’s like, I think a really cool thing for people to understand is that before you pick an agency, a lot of people don’t like agencies. And it’s because, to be honest, you’re not choosing the right thing, you’re just choosing based off price. You go on a sales call and you’re like, “Oh, you’re five grand a month. You do all of this? I’m in.” And I’m like, “Dude, you’re getting thrown to a bunch of people overseas.” Okay.

The second thing is, if it’s 8 to 10 grand a month, here’s how you really know. If you’re looking at an agency and they’re not mass scale. And it’s like, they’re not touching all your traffic sources and they’re not at least six or seven grand a month, that’s probably a red flag. It’s usually like a red flag because you can’t have those kind of margins on US people. There’s just no way. And I’ve been running agency for five or six years. This is no freaking way.

So, that’s where I was like, “Hey, we’re going to do– like, we have competitive pricing, but we are able to do competitive pricing because I have a better team in the back that has higher retention. I don’t lose people much.” So, that’s where I was able to have more competitive pricing. And then on my back and on private stuff, I was able to charge 10, 20, 30 grand a month, and it works.

Brad Weimert: So, I mean, I have a million thoughts on agencies because ultimately, the agency model is very easy to get into on the frontend as illustrated by your coming up story. And it’s very hard to scale large, right? So, the agencies that end up being massive agencies, it’s unique. And then you’ve got kind of the targeting around the agencies. Do you go after small businesses? Do you go after mid-market? Do you go after enterprise? And those are all very different.

And when you go after enterprise, when you’re doing big business, you got huge budgets to play with. And so, you really are spending the client’s money to figure it out. Small businesses, you have less tolerance for that because you’re not going to keep them around if you’re not producing a result, right? And as agency owners get really good, many of them, the natural path is to start selling your own sh*t because you’re like, “Hey, if I know how to market, the margins are on me selling my own stuff.” So, tell me about kind of the growth of it, because you started out figuring out a lot of these skill sets on one client. How did that turn into an eight-figure agency?

Jason Wojo: Yeah. So, the biggest thing that I realized when I was growing an agency is I can’t do everything myself. And I’m going to take us all the way back, like, three to four years ago where we were doing $30,000 a month. There wasn’t anything insane, right? You’re doing 30k a month, and you realize you could do everything on your own, which is okay, because I was, I was doing everything on my own. And then I started growing and I started running one of my low-ticket funnels. And that took me to 100 grand a month. And then I was selling high-ticket coaching.

Then I hit burnout at around 150k a month. I was dying in work. I just didn’t understand hiring that well. I sucked at it. Like, I would just hire somebody to be like, here, to figure it out. And I’m like, “What the hell? Why are you not able to do this?” And then I was getting so egotistical about it. I was like, “Dude, how do you not understand this? Do you not know anything? You don’t have a brain cell?” And I realized, dude, that I was the problem. And I was able to take it to 30 employees and we’re doing 450k a month. That was where we stopped.

And then I had to bring in a CEO because I wanted to have other bolt-ons. So, like, we had about 30 team members. I brought in an ops manager. He’s like, “Dude, everybody here is not that great. You’re making 450k a month and people are not that good.” So, then he goes in and fires everybody. I’m like, “Dude, what the hell are you doing? You can’t just do that.” So, he does it, replaces them fast. It was a little bit of a growing pain. I’m not going to lie. I was a little bit worrisome and scared for about three to four months as he was hiring, replacing, SOPs, all this stuff.

And then, the other three months after that was, we just got to build better systems and processes and all the boring sh*t, like better onboarding slides, better onboarding in general, all these things that were going on. And he’s like, “Dude, I want to do this and you have to find other ways to bring us more leads that are higher quality.” Then that allowed me to focus on building relationships, going on podcasts, speaking at events, and then we started our own event business.

Brad Weimert: Let me double click on that, because that growing pain in particular is super, super, super common, and the hiring element is a never-ending skill set that most entrepreneurs are terrible at. Yeah, and people that are sort of grown to be CEOs, they seem to be taught that skill set or focus on it early. But solopreneurs that bootstrap tend to just beat their face against the wall repeatedly, myself included, through hundreds or thousands, tens of thousands of interviews over time.

So, the first question that I want to ask is, you mentioned selling low ticket to get your agency to 150 grand a month. What does that mean in the construct of an agency? Because originally you were bringing on clients, so what were you selling?

Jason Wojo: So, we were selling ad templates, where it was like, “Hey, here’s 100 ad templates that have worked across all these niches that you can take as a swipe file.” And it was 17 bucks. And dude, when we ran that funnel, this was three and a half years ago, ad costs were way cheaper. And when we did this, dude, it crushed. I was able to spend maybe like three to four grand a day. It was self-liquidating. And then I was selling high ticket on the backend.

And I think I underestimated it. I think, like, one month, we did 200 or something grand when I was running the funnel at full speed. And from there, then it was like, okay, I’m getting all these clients that are really good because low-ticket buyers, by the way, if you get them on high ticket, they’re just better customers, like it just hands down easier. So, that’s one thing I was doing back then. And I still run low-ticket funnels this very day. And that was one skill that I really picked up along the way was just being able to come into any business and be like, “Hey, you need a low-ticket offer. Here’s what you should sell, and here’s how we’re going to send them.”

Brad Weimert: Yeah. So, I want to talk about that, but I want to talk about the hiring piece a little bit first though. But that’s a huge takeaway for most business owners because a lot of the time when you’re selling stuff, you’re thinking about your core offer and there’s this never-ending conversation about shiny object syndrome. And are you chasing too many things at once and should you just focus on what you’re doing?

But having a self-liquidating offer that is in line with your product set is what allows you to scale cold traffic, right? Paid. And for anybody that’s not doing paid, that’s an opportunity to do it. And that makes a lot of sense. But I would challenge any entrepreneur to think about what it is that you could use as that lead magnet on the frontend to help do paid and create leads. And with you, it sounds like you were actually making a ton of money on that in addition to bringing on clients in the backend.

Jason Wojo: Yeah, most of the low-ticket offers that I run, they are profitable on the frontend, but not like crazy. It’s not like these two to three ROAS things. Some clients have been like that, but usually it’s like 1.1 to 1.2-ish. You just get that a little bit above breakeven, so that you can replenish profit and move more ad spend back into the thing. It just allows you to predictably scale faster.

Brad Weimert: Love that. So, I want to talk– let’s come back to that in a second. But you mentioned hiring a CEO and one of the first things that you mentioned doing was firing everybody or a bunch of people and him bringing on new people. But I wanted to highlight that you had articulated the challenge in training them, and the first thing that he did was create a better onboarding system to bring them on and bring them up, so you ended up with experienced people on the team. And that’s a huge deal. Why did you think to hire a CEO and where did you go to find the CEO? And at this point, you’re at, what? Five million a year-ish?

Jason Wojo: Oh, yeah, about four and a half to five. Yeah. And honestly, dude, I kind of got lucky because I didn’t go online and hire somebody. I actually had a friend who was running an agency, and he didn’t really want to grow and scale it. He’s like, “Dude, I have my ops guy. He’s looking for a new opportunity. Could you house him?” And I’m like, “Oh, boy.” So, my only condition, dude, I had a huge control problem. My only condition with getting a CEO was, dude, you have to live with me for six to eight months. You have to live with me. And dude, he was f*cking down. He’s like, “Bro, I’ll do it.”

So, I let him live with me rent free. He got to use my cars. It was this cool trade. And he was like, “All right, I’ll live with you. And then I’m going to transition into CEO.” And dude, it was honestly really lucky for me because I had no other avenue to really find one because I didn’t want to go through like, cold people in interviews and just giving someone that much money every month, which was like, I don’t want to keep having duds. So, I was like, “Dude, just be ops for six to eight months. I’ll see if you’re good. And then I’ll give you what you want on the CEO level with percentage increases in incentives.” So, that’s what we wind up doing.

But dude, hiring a CEO was the hardest thing because it was my baby for years. And I was like, “Dude, I just don’t want to give this thing up.” And dude, he’s been great. Like, it’s awesome. And it allowed me to free up more time to do more bolt-ons. So, that’s when I started building the event business and I started doing more digital products and I started doing more networking and podcasts. Dude, the event business alone is doing over half a mil a month.

And then, what else? The digital products, those do six figures a month. Like, it allowed me to do that, and then also have more private clients, like going into bigger people circles. I’m running Ryan Pineda’s stuff, Kris Krohn, other people I can’t discuss on camera. But there are things that I’m doing right now that are just building my network and it’s just so awesome, and all that freed-up time allow me to do it. And now, we’re just really trying to take over the space. Right now, we’re doing a full-fledged push.

Brad Weimert: Help me understand your daily life where you wanted to have somebody come and live with you for six months to do an interview.

Jason Wojo: Dude, it was interesting because I was so busy in the business still. So, I would be sitting here, and Casey would be in the other room. We were just going back and forth. He was like, “All I got to do, like, where’s the contract?” Honestly, dude, it was a sh*t show for about two months. I didn’t get him in all the softwares. I’d introduce him to every single team member. He had to do one on ones. And then we started doing the hiring funnel. And dude, it was just like, I’m not going to lie, those two months, dude, I was so tired, so exhausted. And then after that, he started to pick up on sh*t. I was like, “All right, this is good.” But the biggest thing, dude, was I had to pour my heart into that relationship because if I didn’t do that, then I would have left him stranded and it wouldn’t have worked out the way that I wanted to work out.

Brad Weimert: Yeah. I think that can be true of lots of leadership roles and management roles. That’s interesting. Okay, so tell me, let’s go back to the low-ticket thing. So, we’re March 1st, ‘24 is when we’re recording right now. And Easy Pay Direct serves a huge portion of the high-ticket community – coaches, consultants, agencies, info product, gurus, all the above. But the trend for the last probably five, six, seven, eight years has heavily moved towards publicizing the high-ticket business model. And a big part of that is that there’s so much margin in those, which allows you to spend so much more on advertising to make that work.

Instead, another way, you don’t have to be as good at ads in cold traffic or creating a funnel when you’re selling something that’s really expensive. Selling a low-dollar thing is a harder proposition for people to figure out very often. How do you approach that? And is there a kind of a framework that you use for low ticket?

Jason Wojo: So, my biggest thing with low ticket is looking at two things. One is simple sells and two is you give your prospect or avatar a quick win. So, like, let’s say for example– see, it’s difficult, like a payment processor but like– you got to play with a bunch. Dude, honestly, what I would do is, here’s like the seven little known ways of why you should be leaving Stripe or like, why Stripe might shut your business down or something like that, dude. Something that would scare people enough to be more curious and buy that. Because a lot of people in the industry, dude, they just don’t like Stripe, like that’s a huge thing.

The other thing with payment processors is you got to think about how they can avoid chargebacks, like that’s the other worry. Like, info product or chargeback rate is getting to X percentage. That’s where I would really sell something like that, like, “Hey, watch this seven-minute video for $7 that will show you how to avoid chargebacks in Stripe and how you should be setting up your processors so you don’t get shut down.” I think that’s something that could do pretty well. I would have to play with wording more, but it’s got to be something that would tease them to come to you.

So, you’re giving them a quick win, like you’re giving them the value of like, “Hey, listen, this is why I like Stripe is this.” But I don’t know what your position if you’re allowed to make a video like that, like, oh, you’re talking smack about Stripe. That might be a bold play, so…

Brad Weimert: Yeah. So, yes, it would be. And yes, you might get a cease and desist from Stripe, but that’s part of the game if you do it. So, that general direction, I like. Talk to me about both. That’s also like a free video that you would find on YouTube. So, talk to me about the self-liquidating side of that. And if video is the only medium you use or you mentioned templates in the past, let’s start with when you do something free or when you charge for something and how you rationalize that.

Jason Wojo: So, the free thing I don’t do anymore because to be honest, man, I just don’t want freebie seekers on my list unless I’m selling high ticket on a webinar or I’m getting to watch a VSL. That’s the only way I’ll do like a free opt-in. But when I’m doing the low ticket, dude, I look at a quick win and also like, what constitutes the quick win? So, yes, it could be templates, fill in the blank, copy and paste, ready to sell, like those kind of words people like.

So, okay, another thing could be, take this copy and paste, like product memo, that will allow you to avoid chargebacks or like, copy and paste this one line of this that will help you avoid chargebacks or copy and paste this descriptor that will allow you to avoid chargebacks. Something, dude, like something that will give them a quick win, where if I copy and paste this thing that’s been proven to work, I will pay seven bucks for it. And dude, the whole piece of what you were asking, it’s like, oh, what constitutes you charging it? It’s a unique mechanism and curiosity. So, regardless of what you’re selling, you’re like, what is the thing that makes the thing unique? Why is it unique? And why isn’t that they just can’t go on Google and search themselves?

And then the second thing is on top of mechanism, fast implementation. Can they just grab this thing and implement it right away? Is it something that’s going to take them a week to implement? No, it shouldn’t be. It should be same day or within 15 minutes or less. So, that’s the way that I look at a low-ticket offer. It’s something that teases the back-end high ticket. So, if you’re a sales coach, let’s say, this is a cool example. Let’s say you’re a sales coach and you coach sales teams. What’s my low-ticket offer? Here’s my proven sales script after selling over $37 million or something, whatever the number is, online. Here’s the one sales script that’s worked across every single niche. And that’s your sales group. It’s fill in the blank. Take it and run with it.

And then the order bump is like, here’s the top 13 objections. And here’s my exact answers word for word on how to beat them. And it’s worked in universally, all these niches. Like, that would be a good low-ticket frontend. So, that’s the way that I look at low-ticket offers.

Brad Weimert: I love it. So, roughly and obviously, I would imagine you play with price points and it varies from client to client, product to product, industry to industry, but you mentioned a $7 upfront for the low ticket. And then, in order bump, what is the funnel like for that? Is it a $7 product, $30 upsell directly to a high ticket? Or how do you approach that?

Jason Wojo: So, it depends on price points, but if you’re starting at a $7 one, the order bump is usually like 17, and then the first upsell is 37. And then you’re going to like a 47, then you’re going to a 97. And then they leave the funnel. If you’re starting at $27, $37, your order bump is going to be $27, $37, too, and then your first upsell is 97. And then your second upsell is 197 or higher. And then the funnel is over. And then it goes to like a thank you page with a calendar on it, but yeah.

Brad Weimert: A calendar to book a call?

Jason Wojo: Yeah, because that’s where you’re going to sell your high ticket. Or you have setters on the phone who are calling the buyers right away to book them.

Brad Weimert: Got it. Interesting. Tell me about kind of the– let’s go back to agency and how you approach sort of helping people build out their marketing in general. Because one of the things that you promote is the variety of industries that you’re in. And you mentioned it earlier, but you said, I think, or maybe I heard you in prep for this, talking about sort of the– if you’re going to have a marketing agency being good at everything versus being good at one industry or one skill set, but it’s really common for agencies to be niche and say, “Hey, we do Facebook ads or we do YouTube, and that’s our expertise.” How do you think about approaching a huge variety of things? And let’s actually just start with what the variety is that your agency does for clients.

Jason Wojo: Yeah. So, like, we do– and here’s the biggest piece is, to really answer that question and like one thing, it’s if you are good at developing offers, you can work with anybody. If you have a really good offer, your marketing doesn’t have to be that good. It really doesn’t have to be. Like, people focus so much on, “Oh, why does my ad not look like it’d be world class at the Super Bowl?” I’m like, “Dude, you don’t need a world-class ad if your offer is really, undeniably irresistible.” So, that’s the biggest thing that we focus on, man, is when they come in, their onboarding is surrounded around what is your offer and how do we make this thing so stupid easy of a yes. Because if the offer is really sexy, dude, the landing page doesn’t need to be that insane. The anchor doesn’t need to be that insane. The ad and the offer sells itself.

And then we have to focus a lot on lead nurture and automations and text, which we already have SOPs for. So, it’s like we were able to systemize that in four really key important parts. Like, number one’s the offer. Two is what’s your landing page going to look like? Are you running lead forms? Like, what are those qualification questions? What are the right qualification questions? And then three are your ads, but the omnipresence. So, like, not just running Facebook because Facebook is this go of ad platforms. Like, maybe your offer would work better on TikTok or YouTube or Google Search, like Google Shopping. Where should we start?

And then fourth is the KPIs, which is like, what are the numbers that dictate success? What have we seen in the passenger niche? Maybe we haven’t worked out your niche. Maybe we have to develop KPIs to set for each party. What does that look like? And I just think that we were able to systemize it a lot easier so that we could service more people. A lot of people go to an agency and all they do is run their ads. It’s like, hey, send us a Google Drive folder of all your current creatives. Okay, what’s your current landing page? You’re sending us to a website? They just f*cking run into the same sh*t. They don’t do anything different.

And it’s like, dude, you have to give a good offer. If your offer sucks, the whole funnel is just a complete wash. It’s just a complete wash. It doesn’t matter unless, like, what people don’t realize too is that the ads don’t matter. That might be a little skewed to say, but from what I’ve run in the past, man, like I run a lot of low-ticket funnels via sales and webinars for a lot of big names out there. We don’t need to make sexy ads because that person is on camera. We don’t need to try that hard. So, people think, “Oh, well, the big guys can do it, why can’t I?” Yeah, because they spent 10 years building a brand. Of course, they can go sell a webinar at will and not care about the offer. They have brand. So, like you, you’re not Nike. No one knows who you are. No one cares who you are. Yet, you have to have a good offer to get in front of people’s faces.

Brad Weimert: Yeah. Many, many years ago, we have a client and friend, Ryan Deiss, who’s kind of an OG internet marketer. And I remember vividly hearing him speak from stage as a long time ago now. But he said, people complain about not having enough traffic. And he said that doesn’t make any sense. There’s a traffic store. You just go and buy traffic in Google, Facebook, whatever. They have an offer problem. And if your offer isn’t good enough, nobody cares. And so, nobody’s buying no matter how much traffic you get there. And that’s the starting point. So, you’re echoing that right now, which makes a ton of sense.

Jason Wojo: Yeah.

Brad Weimert: How do you think about– well, I want to talk to you about kind of personal brand and media. And you launched into on the frontend, being able to pull away from the agency as you put a CEO in place. Where does your time go now? And how do you think about where you spend it to grow the agency?

Jason Wojo: So, right now, my biggest focus is bringing more high-quality clients and doing more brand, doing more podcasts. And then I run the event business. So, right now, we’re doing 22…

Brad Weimert: And what’s the event?

Jason Wojo: It’s Scale Your Ads. We’re doing one event every single week. I’m actually leaving in two hours to go to West Palm Beach for our next event. So, we run one event every single week, 22 cities in a row, 22 weeks in a row. And we do it every single year. We’re on week 4 right now, so I have a long way to go until the middle of June. But do we get 150 business owners in a room? We run ads for it. It’s a free event, by the way, like we don’t charge. And this is a big thing with me is that whenever people tell you, “Don’t do that, it’s a waste,” I do it. Because they don’t want you to know the actual secret and the sauce behind it. But dude, with running these events, we’ll get 150 people in a room. We have a really good offer, and I’m spending 20k in an event. Like, dude, I’ll pull 200 grand, 300 grand out of the room on a free event. Like, why the hell would I not run that?

So, also, it’s like we get better people in person. These are real business owners, making 25k a month, 100k a month, sometimes $1 million a month or more. They’re real business owners. It’s the most no-brainer thing ever. And when we do this, we build brand because I’m getting more reach. When I’m up there speaking, people are posting on their story. They’re tagging me. Free engagement, free followers, free just overall brand. And then on top of it, dude, we’re getting higher lifetime value customers because they’re signing for longer commitments in person, higher LTV.

Then third is, is that I’m bringing the leads as a bolt-on to Wojo Media. Scale Your Ads, it’s just a lead source. Come to an event, buy, go to Wojo Media, and Casey will handle the show. So, my primary focus is just how do I bolt on more leads? Second thing is, how do we get in bigger circles? I want my phone to look like Hollywood. My whole goal is to get every single person that you could think of in my cell phone, which is happening so far. It’s working really well.

And then three is more podcasts, more partner posts, and just more partnerships with people. It doesn’t matter who you are. I know that if I do private work with you, you will make money. You literally can’t lose. Every single person I’m doing private work right now, like, dude, they’re not losing. They’re actually killing the game. And they’re trying to keep me as this, like, secret. Like, they don’t want me working with other people. They’re like, “Dude, I run the real estate industry. I don’t want you doing anybody else. I run a book funnel. I don’t want you working anybody else.”

And it’s because I get to sit there and work on their stuff and diligently get them results and scale the sh*t out of their funnel, because they don’t want to work with the agency that goes to a team. They want the guy. So, it’s like, “Hey, if you want the guy, you got to pay 20, 30 grand a month.” And they’re like, “Sh*t, that’s a lot.” But I’m like, “Dude, it’s going to be worth it. Just trust me.” And that’s been working very well.

Brad Weimert: So, is that the offer at the live events? You mentioned that Wojo Media is getting the leads from the events, which makes sense. So, the agency that you have is converting the free leads that come into that event. Are you selling something else at the live events as well?

Jason Wojo: So, the live events, we sell them through the agency model. That’s they’re getting. And then, what I sell privately, that’s through just networking referrals and yeah, that’s really just where that comes from. There’s maybe one person a month who comes from events who can actually afford that. So, it’s very like– because there’s some people who come to the front of the room and they’re like, “Hey, thanks for the event.” They’d shake hands, take a picture, and they’re like, “Hey, I want you to do my stuff. What do you charge?” And I’m like, “Oh, here we go.”

So, I get that maybe once a month, one person from an event, because it’s a pretty expensive package. And plus, I require a certain amount of ad spend because if I’m going to charge you that much, you got to go and spend two or three grand a day. You have to. So, it’s a very small crowd that’s going to be able to do that. So, yeah, I mean, that just comes and goes. I can’t do that many people. I have 12 right now. So, for me, to do more people right now, it’s kind of tough. And plus, none of the clients are leaving because it’s private. So, it’s just tough.

But then that leads to me getting thrown in group chats of like, “Hey, I have a friend. He wants you to do a low-ticket funnel but can’t afford a retainer.” Then I’m like, “Okay, well, I got to do just like a one-time setup fee.” And that stuff I’m okay with, but I still don’t like that stuff because I don’t build the relationship with somebody. I would rather charge less and get you to stay longer so I can actually have you as a friend and I just do this transactional sh*t all day.

Yeah, I mean, because I had one person like two weeks ago and they were like, “Hey, I want you to just build a low-ticket funnel for me. I don’t want you to manage it. I have somebody in-house who does ads.” And I’m like, “All right, well, it’s going to be 60 grand.” They’re like, “What?” I’m like, “Yeah, you’re not going to pay me monthly. I’m not going to do anything else with you. So, I have to make more on the frontend. You might as well do the 20k a month.” He’s like, “Ooh.” So, it’s just tough.

And the other side of the coin, too, for me is that I will literally, like if a big person comes to me, which I got somebody two days ago that literally runs the entire space, I can’t talk about it, but like two days ago, this guy came to us and dude, he’s running the space right now. Probably one of the top people in history. And he’s like, “I want you to build my low-ticket funnel and do all the stuff.” So, I’m optimizing it right now. And within two days, dude, the numbers already went up. And he was like, “Holy sh*t, how’d you do that so fast?” And it’s like, I can just go into businesses and nitpick, and I can just fix downsells and upsells really, really quickly. And he’s like, “Yo, dude, I have an event in July. I want you to meet X person. Like, come and hang out.” And this other person is just like, “Dude, insane.”

So, it’s just really cool, dude. Being able to give quick wins and then getting thrown in the circles without asking. I give without expectation. I used to always give and ask, which was a problem for me. And that was years ago. I used to give and I was always like, “Oh, do you have a–” now, dude, I just go hard to the f*cking wall and I just do my thing and I’m getting asked to do things that are really cool and I want to be in more networks. That’s my only goal this year, is brand building and just more equity in the space. That’s all I care about.

Brad Weimert: Yeah, well, I think that, I mean, life is long and the relationships ultimately are the foundation of everything else that you do. At the same time, it’s interesting, the trajectory that you are on right now of getting the company to 5 million, having a CEO brought in there, growing that to eight figures, and then going back into private clients and relationship building. It’s an uncommon approach for people. Why is that your approach versus doubling down on the agency and looking at scaling the agency to 20, 30, 50, 100 million?

Jason Wojo: Yeah. So, the thing for me is that Casey is already doing really good increases right now with revenue and retention and all that. So, I’m going to let him.

Brad Weimert: That’s the CEO.

Jason Wojo: Yeah. Even if it’s slower, right? But here’s the thing to me. I look at guys in my space and this might be a shiny thing, but I know it works and I see all the numbers, but they’re more into the influential piece, like talking on big stages, getting paid 50 grand, 100 grand to speak, all this stuff, dude. And I’m like, “Bro, no one’s going to give me 50 grand to speak.” I know that’s not, like, it’s so difficult, dude. And also, what do they all have?

And this is something really important for everybody who’s listening is, like, they all have a book. And I know that’s so shiny, but dude, the numbers I see on the backend, how much money they make off their damn book is like, it makes you feel so poor. So, there’s a lot of people that I run book falls for, and bro, organically, they’re making 300 grand a month off a damn book. And I’m like, “What the f*ck am I doing wrong? Why don’t I have a book?”

So, my whole play with this is more brand building. I’m going to run my own book funnel. I’m going to speak on bigger stages in the speaking gigs, and the book funnel will make me half a mil a month to where I can tone down my life and not have to run events so much and ease down my life because I got to figure out other sh*t in my life, dude. Like, I don’t have a relationship, I don’t have all these other things. It’s just like, I’m kind of getting to that burnout stage, where I’m like, dude, I got to focus on me. Like, what the hell do I want in my life? Where do I want to have my homes? Where do I want to actually settle down and have a family? I don’t know those things.

So, making money was cool. Growing is cool. But then it’s like, what is it for? And I want to be able to have all this brand building stuff in the backend to where, dude, when I flip that switch on a book funnel and I’m doing more speaking gigs, that income alone will be very much enough for me to be able to relax and look at my life a little bit more.

Brad Weimert: Yeah. So, the book funnel, I want to get a couple details on that. I mean, just like you said, everybody and their mom has a book, and there are a bunch of companies, we have a few clients that are facilitators to create books for you, right? That will either write it for you or walk you through the process to do it for you and publish it. When you say people are making a bunch of cash from the book, are you talking about the book being a lead magnet and then upselling to something on the backend?

Jason Wojo: So, all the book funnels that I’m running right now, dude, they run to $99 or 197 membership funnels. So, when you’re getting seven bucks for a book and the next page is $99 a month, then 20% of them convert, you’re building a fat amount of MRR. Also, what are you doing from that? Dude, the people who are paying those kind of prices, they’re decent entrepreneurs. Also, what do they have? A network. And then they might have people who run events and they might– like, dude, it’s a whole funnel. So, what do we want to call it? One of my clients that runs a book funnel, $97 a month, dude, he’s getting a sh*t ton of people in there. Like, bro, that fricking Facebook group is fricking massive. And I’m like, “Jesus, dude, what the hell’s going on here?”

So, on top of that, what else happens? They want to do private days of coaching. Like, dude, he’s charging $50,000 for a podcast and $100,000 for one day of coaching. So, if he just does three days a month and one podcast, he’s making money hand over fist. And dude, people are paying it. I see it in the frickin’ CRM and I’m like, “Jesus, dude, this is crazy.” And that is just because the book is this social proof authority angle. I don’t know what it is because to be honest, dude, I don’t read books. I don’t like however that sh*t. And I see people who have these book funnels and they’re just cashing, dude, cashing. And I’m just like, “Jesus.”

Brad Weimert: There’s definitely a credibility piece there. And I think that it’s changing over time. And anytime you can automate something entirely, you’re going to lose the cachet at some point because part of what made books historically credible is that it was difficult to get a book published and you had to have somebody publish it for you, right, which people didn’t know how to do. And then it’s getting on the lists, and then you realize you can game some of the lists. And so, the credibility is eroding, but it hasn’t yet. There’s still this high status attached to having a bestselling book in some capacity.

Okay. So, before we wrap here, a couple things that I think are relevant to almost everybody. The first is you’ve had exposure to a whole bunch of different business types that you’ve scaled ads for. What’s a very common mistake that business owners make when they’re trying to scale cold traffic?

Jason Wojo: When they’re trying to scale cold traffic, they don’t realize that breaking even is a good thing. They don’t realize that. They are so attached to front-end profit that they really don’t realize that if I spend– like, one of our low-ticket funnels that I run right now, I spend 12 grand a day and I make $11,000 back, most people would tell me to turn it off. You’re wrong. You don’t understand how to have a good sales process and sell high ticket.

Like, if I lose a thousand bucks a day and I’m getting 400 buyers a day, and I can’t get one person to give me a thousand bucks, I’m the problem, not the ad. I’m the problem. Like, you’re looking for front-end profit. Wrong. Unless you’re e-comm, I get it. But dude, if you’re running a high ticket and then you have an info product business and you’re not happy breaking even, I will buy the business from you. And that’s what I say to everybody, “Sell it to me, I’ll buy it.” It’s stupid to not want to break even on the frontend.

Brad Weimert: Where does AI fit into your marketing right now?

Jason Wojo: I’ll be honest, dude, zero. I freaking hate it. I hate ChatGPT. I hate all the stuff that it’s programming us to think. I mean, AI, like, dude, Zapier, Monday, all that sh*t, dude, of course. But if you’re going to automate an email and you can’t write the right verbiage, like you’re not a marketer, you’re an ass clown. I just can’t do it. Dude, I can’t tell you enough how annoying it is when I see ChatGPT emails and I can tell when they’re ChatGPT’d, ad copies ChatGPT’d, all this sh*t is ChatGPT’d, like you’re not a marketer. You don’t need to do that sh*t. You’re doing it because you’re just being lazy. Stop being lazy and own your marketing. Prove your concept, build a foundation, and then you can delegate proof of concept to other people. But dude, ChatGPT will not save your business, so no.

Brad Weimert: Do you see a path for AI to be a part of your marketing mix?

Jason Wojo: The only thing I would want to use AI for is, like, somehow replicating me to do cool sh*t in the business. So, for example, like onboarding videos that are custom and my mouth would change to the person’s name, that’s appealing. Like, “Hey, welcome, Wojo Media, Jason here. Hey, Jeremiah.” Or hey, like it changes the name to the voice, like, little sh*t like that that helps out the journey, but I’m not going to map a client’s thing around it.

The only thing that I would do with that is like, let’s say a client wants to run an event funnel or something like that. I have proven templates that if I could ask AI to brand the funnel for me, then that would be cool. Little sh*t like that, but not the whole thing. The little things, yes. But yeah, I’m not going to put all my eggs in that basket.

Brad Weimert: If you were to build the agency again. What would you do differently, if anything?

Jason Wojo: Ooh, that’s a good question. If I were to build it differently, I would have spent a lot more money on personal branding and I would have started a podcast sooner and I would have looked at bigger people in the space as relationships, not money because I had a lot of opportunities when I first came up, but I was so hungry to make money because I was f*cking broke. And I was like, I just want to make money, so I don’t really care about the… just pay me a retainer. And then I realize that, like, dude, if I provide value and people see value, then they will give me more referrals and intrinsic value in relationships than I could ever see.

And the funny part, dude, is also what would I have done differently, I would have invested more money in the things that don’t give you a direct ROI. I know it sounds insane. But for business owners out there who are really looking to grow and scale, start going to events, stop having an ego around who you’re meeting because you never know who can help you. And I spend more money now on podcasts, traveling, going to events, and sh*t that doesn’t give you a direct ROI. It’s not this paper for paper ROI. And dude, it makes a lot more for us. And I’ve spent probably like 100-something grand on events and all this stuff over the last three months. Bro, the value that I’ve gotten is just disgusting. The relationships I have are nuts. The context I’ve got are nuts. It’s not a direct ROI, it’s an LTV-based ROI, just long term.

Brad Weimert: Yeah, I love that. And I think you said that very well. It’s difficult when you’re broke to not chase money because you’re in a hurry to change your lifestyle. And it actually, oddly, is the biggest thing that gets in your way because more successful people also smell that and feel it and don’t want to be around it. So, the more successful you are, at least to some level, the less you focus on the independent transaction because it doesn’t matter. It’s not moving the needle, the independent transactions.

Jason Wojo: They’re not going to change your life.

Brad Weimert: No. That’s what I mean. It doesn’t matter. It’s not going to change your life in the moment. And I think as you start to scale things, you recognize that the bigger picture has to be a ton of things happening together. And those things are all dependent on those relationships. I love that. That’s great, man. Well, I appreciate you carving out the time. If people want to find out more about you, the agency, the events, whatever, where do you want to point them?

Jason Wojo: So, if they go on Instagram, I’m on there, @thejasonwojo. And then if they go to OfficialJasonWojo.com, they can see all the events coming to probably a city near anybody here who’s watching. And then, on top of that, they can grab my new book, Ads That Sell. Just pay shipping and handling. And that’s really it.

Brad Weimert: I love it. I love it, man. Awesome. Well, until next time, man.

Jason Wojo: All right. I appreciate it, man.