Brock Johnson 0:00
The highest average value per follower is on Instagram, and in fact, Instagram is 11 times higher than Tiktok, four times higher than YouTube, higher than twitch. Instagram followers are just converting at a higher rate, and they’re spending more money than other platforms. Perfect sweet spot between going viral and at the same time taking that exposure and converting it to followers and customers, there might be some fad trend of, hey, do this exercise, but at the end of the day, if your calorie out is more than your calorie in, you’re going to lose weight. And the same is true on Instagram. The biggest mistake that entrepreneurs and business owners are making on social is,

Brad Weimert 0:37
Congrats on getting beyond a million. What got you hear won’t always get you there. This is a podcast for entrepreneurs who want to reach beyond their seven figure business and scale to eight, nine and even 10 figures. I’m Brad Wymer, and as the founder easy pay direct, I have had the privilege to work with more than 30,000 businesses, allowing me to see the data behind what some of the most successful companies on the planet are doing differently. Join me each week as I dig in with experts in sales, marketing, operations, technology and wealth building, and you’ll learn some of the specific tools, tactics and strategies that are working today in those multi million, eight, nine and 10 figure businesses, life can get exciting beyond a million. Brock Johnson, it is great to see you off the slopes for the first time. Thanks for joining.

Brock Johnson 1:21
Yes, sir, fired up to be here. Happy we made this connection, and can’t wait to jam today. Yeah.

Brad Weimert 1:26
So I met you randomly at bald face with Dan Martel and a bunch of other people. Then we just hung out, and I found out later that you are the person to talk to about growth on Instagram, amongst other things, but you have a podcast called Build your tribe. You also have Insta club hub, which you launched in 2020 with your mom, who people may know from a crazy fitness journey, lots of infomercials, et cetera, but that now is 50,000 plus members, and there’s sort of this never ending trend of Instagram, changing, evolving, people trying to chase it. And I wanted to start there. What is the big mistake that you see entrepreneurs making on Instagram right now?

Brock Johnson 2:09
Such a great question. And I think one of the biggest mistakes that entrepreneurs, content creators make on Instagram, it’s really a mistake they make on all social medias, is this chase this, constantly feeling overwhelmed, the FOMO, the stress and the anxiety that, honestly, and I can say this wholeheartedly, is caused by my group, like it is caused by the fellow Instagram social media coaches. I try to be a voice that kind of counteracts that, but I recognize that, if nothing else, I am just another voice that’s yelling into the void here, and US Social Media coaches, we are infamous for saying things like new algorithm, update, this latest change, this new feature, and selfishly, that’s the kind of stuff that’s going to perform well for us. But to be totally transparent, the biggest mistake that entrepreneurs and business owners are making on social is constantly freaking out about all of these changes and updates and trends, when, in reality, there’s just a few core things, a few core strategies that, if you can stick to those, you’re going to have success. I view it, you know, kind of similar to like the workout world, where, yeah, there might be a great new exercise that’s gaining in popularity. There might be, you know, a great workout of the day that’s really, you know, popular right now. There might be some fad trend of, hey, try this with this band. Do this exercise. But at the end of the day, if your calorie out is more than your calorie in, you’re going to lose weight. If you are straining your muscles to and past fatigue, you’re going to build muscle like there are these tried and true strategies and principles in fitness that are always going to work like they worked whether we were cave people 100,000 years ago or were living in the modern world today. And the same is true on Instagram. There’s just a few baseline strategies that if you can stick to those and stay consistent, you’re gonna win in the long run.

Brad Weimert 3:59
I think that one of the things that gets tricky for people when we look at social in general, you talk about the things that work and the things that don’t work. You have, you know, pushing a million followers right now as of May or June, shit, it’s June 2025, Insta is the main platform you’re on. So when you talk about the core things, let’s start with, is Instagram the best platform to be growing on and getting attention on? And are the principles on Instagram the same as on other platforms?

Brock Johnson 4:30
Yeah, two really great questions here. So I believe that Instagram really operates in this perfect middle ground where you can go viral, get attention, get hundreds of 1000s or millions of views every single month, which isn’t possible on most platforms, there’s only a few, primarily Instagram reels and Tiktok, those are the two main platforms where that is relatively possible and doable. And at the same time, Instagram is a great platform for conversions, which ultimately we’re business owners. Us like millions of views are cool, but at the end of the day, we need conversions. And according to the data, according to a study that was done by carrot financial, the highest average customer value, or the highest average value per follower, is on Instagram. And in fact, Instagram is 11 times higher than Tiktok, four times higher than YouTube. I believe it was four or five times higher than Twitch, the popular live streaming platform. And so Instagram followers are just converting at a higher rate, and they’re spending more money than other platforms. So I do believe Tiktok is great platform. Tiktok is awesome for getting exposure, getting reach, going viral, but what I hear from so many people who are super popular on Tiktok is that they use Tiktok as like, the very top of their funnel, and then they funnel a lot of their most engaged Tiktok followers over to Instagram, because that’s ultimately where a lot of sales are taking place. I’m also a big fan of podcast and YouTube, but those are really, really tough to grow. And yes, you can have viral podcasts, you can have viral YouTube videos, but it’s much tougher over there, the Evergreen component is a great beneficial factor, but just from what we’ve seen, Instagram is really this perfect sweet spot between going viral, getting a lot of views that exposure, and at the same time taking that exposure and converting it to followers and customers. To answer your second question about you know, are the strategies essentially the same? They are. There are a few minor nuanced differences in terms of maybe how you set up your profile or what kind of content is going to perform best on each platform. But I truly believe that no matter what social media platform you’re on, there’s three steps to growth, just three. There’s not a million. There’s not 17. I asked people on a live training last week, how many steps do you think there are? And the average answer was like, in the 20s, there’s just three. Step number one, identify a clear niche, and I define the niche as the who like the demographics. What are you talking to that group about? That’s step one. Step two, optimize your profile right. Make sure that your profile is set up correctly. Make sure that your recent posts reflect your niche. Make sure that your bio is like a billboard and it can clearly and concisely tell people what it is you’re all about. That’s step two, and then step three is just posting with a growth oriented strategy. Now the exact strategies might vary a little bit from platform to platform, but ultimately it boils down to two things, quality and quantity. Can you make good posts, and can you make a lot of them? And can you do both at the same time? If you can do that, if you can follow those three steps, you’ll win. Whether you’re on Tiktok, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, it doesn’t matter.

Brad Weimert 7:36
Yo, I think that the defining your your niche, and the profile, the profile, it’s shocking how many profiles are just in disarray and a mess. Yeah? Knowing that functionally, your profile is your landing page on these platforms, the niche is an interesting one, though, and I want to talk about that relative to business, because you just said at the end of the day, the views are great, the subs are great, but if you’re not converting, what’s the point? Yeah. So do you think that the type of business or the specific niche you’re in changes what platform you should be driving towards, or do you still hold that Instagram is still the best place to convert? I

Brock Johnson 8:13
think Instagram is the best place for B to C. I think for B to B, you could definitely make an argument for LinkedIn. I think that there are slight differences depending on what your product is and who your target demographic is. If you’re trying to reach fortune 500 CEOs, then I wouldn’t recommend posting 40 tiktoks a day, because that’s just not where they’re hanging out and spending most of their time. But I would imagine Brad that for most of your listeners, I would say probably 95% of them, definitely 90% or more Instagram is probably your best bet, but there are exceptions to every rule. There are exceptions to every best practice. And so there can definitely be other platforms, and you can make any platform work. I think I’m a firm believer that might be tougher or easier on certain platforms, but you can pretty much make any platform work for any business with the right strategies in place. Well,

Brad Weimert 9:01
I want to, I want to put a pin in the the content creation element and the tactics and strategies around that, because you, you mentioned that, and I want to hit on that hard. But while we’re talking about the conversion path, you mentioned B to C and Instagram, and one of the reasons that Instagram is one of the paths that are effective for conversion. Now they’ve got embedded product sales in Instagram, right? You can swipe up, etc, etc, but you can also go DM sales for stuff like high ticket transactions or consulting, etc. What are the paths that you see for conversion and Instagram, and what are the benefits to one versus the other? Yeah,

Brock Johnson 9:39
by far the most effective conversion path on Instagram is through the DMS. From what we have seen, there’s a specific tool called DM automation. And whether you’re selling a high ticket course or coaching or you’re selling a low ticket digital product, anything in between memberships, physical products, anything we see that the DMS are. The biggest power play, according to the head of Instagram, they believe that the DMS are their sweet spot. That is what Instagram excels in. That’s what I believe as well. I believe that’s why Instagram has such a higher customer value than on any other platform. Think about all the other social media apps. You’re not really DMing people like I don’t know if I’ve ever sent a DM on on YouTube. I don’t even know if that exists. I don’t really send DMS on Tiktok, but on Instagram, DM in all the time, like all my friends, DMing each other, people, my followers, DMing me, customers, sending messages to each other. The DMS are really active. And in fact, according to the q1 earnings report, in 2025 from Instagram, Instagram direct messages are used 60 times more than the Instagram feed. The amount of content being shared via DM is 60 times higher than the amount of content shared in the feed, and so that’s why the sales process is so much more effective in the DMS on Instagram, not to mention the ability to build trust relationships, serve your audience, meet their needs, answer their questions, solve their problems. All of that can be done so much more effectively in the direct messages. Now I mentioned DM automation. That’s a specific tool. Comment this word and I will send you this thing. Maybe it’s comment the word guide, and I’ll send you my free guide to growing on Instagram, or it can be DM. Me the keyword unlock, and I’ll send you the link to unlock this special feature. It’s basically telling your audience, prompting them with a specific word phrase to comment or to DM. And then you can automatically set it up so that it is sent out whatever it is that they’re looking for, automatically sent to their inbox. It’s instant, they don’t have to hunt for it. And the best part about this is the typical method of selling on Instagram is click the link in my bio, or click this link on my stories. And when you do that, when you tell someone to click the link in your bio, click the link on your stories, they’re left with one of two options, and both options are not very favorable. Option number one is scroll away because they’re uninterested. That option is always going to be there. We can’t get rid of that option. Number two, if they are interested, in order to purchase, they have to do a lot of work. They have to go to your profile. They have to go find the link. You probably have a link menu in your bio. They have to find the right one. So it’s a lot of work for them, but also for you, you didn’t get any engagement. They didn’t interact with your post. They literally left your post because you told them to do so. And so when they’re leaving your post, that post isn’t getting engagement, and thus it’s not going to get very many views. So instead, with DM automation, you’re telling them, Hey, comment this word and I’ll send you the link directly to your inbox. Now your post is getting engagement, your post will get more views, and your followers are getting the link that they need to become customers, so much easier.

Brad Weimert 12:48
So one of the things that I think, that I hear people talk about, and I’m curious about your take on, is third party tools in general. And I know Instagram has some automation built in for these things, but there’s all this. There are third party scheduling tools, there’s third party DM automation. There are ways to interact with Instagram externally. What penalizes you and what doesn’t from a outside of Instagram integration perspective? Yeah,

Brock Johnson 13:18
I love this question. It’s super important, because this is, like one of the most myth fueled and anxiety driven questions that I get all the time. You will not be penalized for using a third party app as long as it is an approved software by Instagram. I asked the head of Instagram about this directly in my interview with him a few months ago, and he confirmed using a scheduling tool, using an outside editing app, using a DM automation tool, as long as it’s approved by Instagram, you will not be penalized for doing so. Now, of course, that’s what he says, that could not be true in practice, that could be false, that could be wrong. Well, a study was recently put out by HootSuite and the Insta club hub, which is our business, where we looked at posts that were made that were edited using capcut, which is the most popular mobile short form video editing app, posts that were edited using the new edits app, the app put out by Instagram or write in Instagram themselves. And all three had no difference. There was no change in views or engagement regardless of where you edited the app. The one asterisk, I will say, and this is directly from Instagram themselves. Make sure there’s not like, a watermark or a logo. Some people are cheap and they don’t buy the pro version of CAP cuts. There’s a little cap cut logo down at the bottom. Just make sure to crop that out, or don’t be cheap and pay for the pro version. So there’s not a logo on your video. But that’s totally fine. Same with DM automation, I recommend using many chat that’s the most popular and widely used tool for DM automation, approved by Instagram, totally fine and legal to use. And scheduling, again, there’s like 40 different schedulers out there that all pretty much do the same thing at slightly different price points and slightly different features. Yeah, but as long as it’s approved by Instagram, you’re good to go. You

Brad Weimert 15:04
know, that’s interesting, because when many chats started many years ago, like right right after they launched, Facebook put a ban on third party integrations into their DMS, specifically into Facebook Messenger. What do you think changed? And obviously, I think at the time, Facebook was independent from Instagram. I can’t remember where the merger, where the acquisition was, but what do you think changed from the stance of, we don’t want to automate the DMS, to leaning in to, hey, we’re going to build automation internally and actually encourage that DM engagement.

Brock Johnson 15:41
Yeah, I think there’s a few things that changed. I think number one, Instagram, Facebook, meta, they realized that it’s much easier and more beneficial profitable for them to allow third party, independent companies to create this software and create this technology, and then down the line, they can kind of steal some of the engineers. They can steal some of the tech along the way. Maybe they can buy out some of these companies and integrate it into meta. Meta, one of Zuckerberg founding principles is move fast, break things. And that’s why Instagram and Facebook are always broken. That’s why there’s always glitches and malfunctions. And so I think they probably recognize that pretty early on. DM automation is a very complex software that they’re probably going to break it a lot if they build it. And then I think the ultimate driving factor was just that so many of us business owners started to adopt and use these features and saw extremely beneficial results from using them. And so it was kind of a thing where it’s like, Hey, we got to kind of keep the masses happy here. We got to keep everyone happy, because if we ban this and take it away and then we replace it with a pretty roughly made alternative, then people are going to be very unhappy with us. And so I think that’s ultimately why they decided to open up the API for these third party apps. Well,

Brad Weimert 16:56
when we look at you hit on this just now, but when we look at sort of the evolution of these platforms, there are, we have gone since, probably since, you know, 2015 to 2025, that 10 year period. And obviously it started earlier. But that 10 year period, the creator economy exploded, and the opportunity to build a brand as a creator, as an influencer, completely changed, and so the platform started to lean into the opportunity to do that. And they’re certainly more supportive of creators than they ever were, and that’s true of YouTube, it’s true of meta, it’s true of LinkedIn, certainly true of Tiktok, et cetera, et cetera. Also their money comes from ads. Do you think that Instagram favors creators or business owners today more?

Brock Johnson 17:49
That’s a great question. I think that they favor creators more, and I don’t think this is a great business decision from them. I wish this wasn’t the case, because I view myself as a business owner, an entrepreneur, first and foremost, a content creator. Second, I view myself as a content creator who does content to market my business. And so from all of the trend reports, from all of the analytics that Instagram, Facebook, meta puts out, it’s oftentimes very focused on the Creator rather than the business. I do think that the lines between the two are becoming increasingly blurred. And I really feel like there’s not a huge distinction nowadays. I think that more and more creators, even the biggest creators in the world, the Logan Pauls and the Mr. Beasts, they’re realizing that just getting views, just going viral, just having millions of subscribers is not really a business, right? It’s not a product that they’re selling. There’s no services being offered. And so it’s a very vulnerable place to be just putting all of your faith in Hey, YouTube’s gonna pay me based off AdSense. Instagram is gonna pay me based off how many views my reels get. And so while I do think that Instagram specifically favors, or, you know, puts favoritism towards creators. I think that the difference between a creator and a business owner nowadays is a very blurred line. It’s, you know, the Venn diagram is very, very overlapped at this point. But I do think that they slightly favor creators.

Brad Weimert 19:19
I mean, I think, look, I use that language deliberately, and I think you’re right. There are definitely people, though, that are creator first, and there are definitely people that are entrepreneur first. And one of the reasons that I wanted to talk to you is because our audience is full of entrepreneur first people, and we certainly have a huge chunk that are creators, and there are a bunch of other labels for these people, and they’re consultants, creators, info, product people, info marketers, yada yada, but it’s the same thing. The other side of the game are brands that are trying to get exposure or attention to fuel their own business. Do you look at the product? Process of content creation differently for a business like easy pay direct for example, that wants to push content out to get the attention of business owners, to ultimately funnel it back to help them process payments for their business. Do you look at that differently than somebody that is picking a niche to get attention there and then saying, hey, what product aligns with this that I can monetize that audience with? Yeah, I

Brock Johnson 20:25
really don’t view it as any different. Whether it’s a brand, a business owner who is kind of the face of the brand, or a content creator who is going to create a product or service down the line to ultimately sell to their audience and monetize their following, it’s ultimately the same principles. It’s the same three that I provided earlier. The exact like content that you’re posting might vary, and of course, depending on who your audience is, what you’re posting, how frequently and what you’re posting about is all going to slightly change, but it’s the same basic principles, and I’m a firm believer that it is that way, because we’re all dealing with the same algorithm, right? We’re all playing the same game, so to speak. And ultimately, we are in a time and space where social media is a lot less about the social and a lot more about the media. I recently had a conversation with the head of Instagram for Business, and so it’s the official meta channel for talking for to business owners, not just creators, but specifically those of us who are entrepreneurs and business owners. And the head of their their team, said that, you know, a few years ago, business owners could view themselves as entertainers, educators, and entertainment was something to keep in mind. But now, if you aren’t viewing yourself as an entertainer, first and foremost, your brand is not going to have success on social and now entertainment. That doesn’t mean dancing, that doesn’t mean copying trends and being Duolingo, but it does mean keeping entertainment in mind and the entertainment factor and the entertainment value with every single post. Otherwise it’s just going to fall on deaf ears.

Brad Weimert 22:02
Interesting. Well, let’s talk about the content creation and the mechanisms behind it. Then, because you started with, know, your niche, and then we talked about optimizing profile, then you talked about producing quality and volume and trying to do those things together. What does volume mean to you, and what is the size and shape of it? Meaning totally, what type of content, in terms of, you know, short or real, or image post or short video or longer form video, etc, etc, etc. Yeah, love this

Brock Johnson 22:32
question. So if anyone’s listening, I hope they have their pen and piece of paper out, because I’m about to info dump. They might need to put this on, like, point seven, five speed, so they can slow it down. Write it all down. So first, let’s talk about frequency. How much should you post? Specifically on Instagram? I’m going to answer that by not giving you a number, but by giving you the fact, which is, the more you post, the more you grow. There’s a direct correlation with no upper end limit of post frequency to growth rate. Yes, there are even examples of accounts that are posting hundreds of feed posts per day, and they are seeing massive growth, hundreds of 1000s, if not millions of followers per month at that upper extremity. Now that’s the fact. But of course, we’re all human beings. Some of the listeners are content creators. Most of the listeners are business owners. Some of them are creating content for their business, which is a lot of balls to juggle. Some of them have their content team who they’re going to be sending this podcast to to listen after this. But regardless, it’s important that we ask ourselves, what can we sustain? And the frequency that you can sustain is going to be different based off of your goals, your season of business, your season of life, your capacity, all of those different things. Ultimately, though, I say start with what you can sustain, whether that’s one post a day, one post a month, five posts a day, start with what you can sustain, and then challenge yourself to optimize and create systems and use artificial intelligence to work more efficiently, not to work more hours on Instagram, but to work smarter, not harder, and increase your output without having to increase your input. Well, let me

Brad Weimert 24:03
ask you a question about that real quick. So more you post, more you grow. Are you better off? And then you said, maintain the cadence. Right? So if you’re going to post five times a week or five times a day, whatever it is, maintain it. So the first question is, do you have to maintain the cadence? Or is that more about a are you gonna get penalized for not maintaining the same cadence? Or is that more about just keeping your fucking head together so that you don’t try to do too much too quickly? Part of it is definitely

Brock Johnson 24:30
about keeping your head together. The algorithm will not punish you for changing your frequency. If you post, you know, an extreme amount, one day, 15 times on one day, and then you go a few days with zero. The algorithm won’t necessarily punish you for that, but I think it’s important to replace the word algorithm with the word audience. If you have followers and you’re posting 15 times in one day, that’s a lot of posts for them to consume, especially if the five days before that, you hadn’t posted it all. And the five days after that, you’re not posting at all. So from an audience perspective, I would rather have you space it out. I also think from a creator perspective, it’s easier to post three times a day for five days in a row than 15 times on Monday and then burn yourself out for the rest of the week. But yeah, I think, generally speaking, algorithmically, you will not be punished. Audience wise, it may hurt you if you suddenly flip the switch. You’re listening to this podcast, you’re fired up. You’re used to posting once a day, and tomorrow you start posting seven, eight times a day. You’re probably going to overwhelm some people, so slowly, scale it up or scale it down.

Brad Weimert 25:33
Awesome. So you might, you might be on the trajectory to answer this one anyway, but I’m going to jump in with it. So you mentioned, you know, the idea of somebody putting 100 posts a day in their feed and getting growth from it. There are a lot of different ways you can chop things up. And you could do a longer post that has several points in it that are of value. Or you could do, you know, a three second clip, or a seven second clip, and then just do a shit load of those. Are you better off doing? You know, a post a day that has seven points in the post, or one point with seven videos throughout every single day

Brock Johnson 26:08
on Instagram? The answer would be seven different posts with one point per post, and that’s because Instagram really prioritizes short form content. A lot of people, myself included, were wrong by hypothesizing that over the next year or so, and this was in 2024 when I was wrong. Hypothesized that, hey, Instagram is going to lean into long form content. Tiktok has leaned into long form content, and Instagram is going to copy them. Instagram hasn’t followed suit. They extended reels from a minute and a half to three minutes, but that’s where they drew the line. If it’s longer than three minutes, they ain’t pushing it out to more people. And so Instagram is really all about short form content, and in terms of the length of your content, there’s this great rule. The name of it was come up with by one of our Insta club hub students. It’s called the mini skirt rule. And the mini skirt rule is the rule for how long your posts should be, and this is specifically for Instagram, but it’s for how long should your reels be? How many slides should there be in your carousel? How long should your caption be? The miniskirt rule is this, the miniskirt should be long enough to cover what you need to cover, but short enough to hold attention to say it another way, long enough to cover the important bits, but not any longer than that. So basically, there is no magic. One size fits all mini skirt. There is no magic. One size fits all. Length for your content, you might have to make a 47 second video to get your point across, but during that 47 second video, don’t be redundant. Don’t use the same word four different times, saying it the same way with different synonyms. Don’t repeat the same sentence, basically with every word, with every sentence, with every clip of your video. Ask yourself, is this absolutely necessary? Does this encourage someone to keep watching the next second? Or is this a part that is redundant? Is this a part that could be boring? Is this a part that is just unnecessary? Long enough to cover what you need to cover, short enough to hold attention.

Brad Weimert 28:01
Dan Kennedy had a quote which was, don’t say blah, blah, blah, when blah is enough,

Brock Johnson 28:07
yeah, yeah. I love that. I love that. So again, that’s that’s really the the quantity piece is, the more you post, the more you grow, start with what you can sustain, and then figure out ways to scale up that number the quality piece. There’s a lot more that could go into it, right? There’s a lot of different things that we could consider. I would say the number one most important thing to consider is the hook, the opening sentence, the first three seconds of your video, or the first slide in your slide show. The hook is everything. If you cannot hook people, I don’t care how valuable the rest of your content is, the hook is absolutely everything, and so success leaves clues. Look around you. Look outside of your industry for what’s grabbing your attention, what’s hooking you in, what is encouraging you to keep watching. And I would say, put the majority of your time, energy and effort on improving and refining your hooks. If you aren’t getting the views you feel like you deserve, your hooks are probably to blame. That’s usually the, the most important part that I would recommend focusing on, but the more broad strategy for the quality of your content and the kinds of posts to make, well, I

Brad Weimert 29:11
gotta double click on hooks first. So, oh yeah, go for it. Go for it. I know you like mini skirts, but how long should the hook be? What’s, what’s the the time range for a hook,

Brock Johnson 29:20
I have a general recommendation, 5855, to eight words. Fifth grade reading level five to eight words. Fifth grade reading level five to eight words, because if you go more than eight words, it’s like, think about your headline on a newspaper. If you pick up a newsletter or on a newspaper, and it’s like more than eight words, it’s like a super long sentence. You never see a 10 word headline on a newspaper, and at the same time, very rarely do you see less than five words. Five to eight is kind of that sweet spot where you can get a message across, create some curiosity, and not be too short, not too long. And fifth grade reading level at a maximum like. Maybe even third grade or dumber reading level, not because your followers are dumb, but just because they’re distracted. We live in a day and age where everyone is so beyond distracted, and so the more simplified you can make your hook with the words you’re saying, the more you can dumb it down, the more likely someone it is to understand it and to continue watching.

Speaker 2 30:21
That’s so nice of you. I don’t know. I think most people are stupid.

Brock Johnson 30:25
I listen. I have to tell my audience that they’re not and listen, you listen. Your audience is not dumb, but we need to dumb it down for them, just in case

Brad Weimert 30:35
I didn’t see your audience. I just that was a very broad statement,

Brock Johnson 30:39
no, I do. I do listen, and we don’t need to get into a bigger conversation about media literacy rates declining and all of that, but dumb it down and keep it simple.

Brad Weimert 30:47
Yeah, no, I think to actually to the point of everything that you’re saying. I say this quite a bit, certainly to my team, internally and often when I’m talking to people. But one of the most difficult things to do is to take a complex topic and simplify it in the reason that people don’t do a great job with content that they create is because it’s hard to create a really good, complex top topic and make it simple. And you are doing a good job right now of creating frameworks for people that allow them to follow that path. So I think that’s great. So quality is what we’re on. You’ve got the open hook, which is five to eight words, what was the last 5/5? Grade reading level. Fifth grade reading level, right? That was the point. Yeah, exactly.

Brock Johnson 31:32
Yeah. I appreciate that. And I do think, like it’s the curse of knowledge, right? We forget what it was like to be a beginner. We don’t know what we didn’t once know, and so really just simplifying it. Use chat GPT. Use AI. Ask a beginner. Look at the words and the questions that your audience is using to help help you gage where they’re at and what they truly know versus what they don’t. But to go back to the point of quality content, if your goal is growth, if your goal is views and getting more attention attraction for your business on Instagram or really on any social, I would focus on creating share worthy content. And share worthy content is, quite simply, the posts that are worthy of being shared. And when I say shared, I mean sent from one friend to another. Earlier we talked about DMS, and I said, 60 times more content is sent via DM every day than is posted to the feed. Listen, the algorithm is not perfect. It is improving. It’s much better than it was ever before. But it’s not perfect, right? I get recommended posts all day in my feed. Some of them are engaging. Some of them not so much. Some of them I click not interested in because I’m like, What the heck is this? But while we’re having this conversation right now, Brad, I can guarantee you my wife has probably sent me a few tiktoks. She’s probably sent me a few reels, and those posts that she has shared with me are going to be perfect. They’re going to be hilarious. They’re going to be super relatable. They’re going to be highly engaging. It’s going to be something that’s happening in my area, that’s like a new business opening that I need to, you know, a new restaurant, I need to go try the kinds of posts that are being sent from one person to another, or one person to a group chat, or one person to their colleague. Those are the posts that get the most views, that get the most interactions, that reach the target audience, the easiest and the most and so optimizing for shares and creating share share worthy posts is really the ultimate growth hack that can kind of allow you to give the middle finger to the algorithm and say, I don’t need you to show me to the right people. My followers will show me to the right people.

Brad Weimert 33:32
Okay, so my I’ve got some friends that send me some pretty fucked up shit in my DMs. So yeah, me too, truly. So while we’re on that, I think one of the questions is how to stay in alignment with your brand or your product or your message, and how necessary that is. And let me say that another way, because there are some examples where it’s like, well, obviously I don’t want to, you know, put some click bait thing out that is going to get a lot of attention, but to an audience that clearly isn’t my clearly isn’t my audience. However, there are things that are like, you know, easy pay directs a great example, where our target market are companies that are doing a million dollars and more in processing volume online. Now that’s by the way, we have 1000s of clients that don’t do a million dollars a year that we serve, but in terms of our marketing efforts, we’re targeting the million and up. So we don’t want to make content in general that targets the brand new entrepreneur or the person that’s doing 100 grand a year, because it’s not quite our target market that said there’s a much bigger audience in that space. So how do you think about targeting the content that’s going to be shareable for your your niche, versus being more broad? Because, you know, the algo is going to pick it up and it’s going to get more shares,

Brock Johnson 34:53
etc, yeah. So it always starts with niche. The there’s like five different kinds of share worthy posts, and with all different five to. Kinds of share worthy posts, and with any post you’re making to the feed on Instagram, step one for growth is not just identify your niche, but then what do we do with it? We apply it to all of our feed posts. We make sure that every post we make is directly relatable to our niche. And then occasionally, I recommend doing something, a strategy that I call taking naps. And naps is an acronym that stands for niche adjacent posts. And niche adjacent posts are kind of what you just described. They are directly relatable and appeal to that ideal audience, but they also can appeal to a different audience. They can also appeal to a little bit more broad audience. Maybe they reference pop culture. Maybe they’re talking about what’s going on in the news. Maybe they’re using a popular meme or trend or trending audio that’s really going viral right now. And those sorts of things can allow you to kind of extend your circle and invite some more people to the business without directly, you know, changing things up and suddenly making a post that’s totally unrelated to your niche.

Brad Weimert 35:59
You left a big open loop with stories. So how are stories different?

Brock Johnson 36:05
Yeah, so stories are really only going to be seen by your existing followers. Stories do not help you grow stories. It’s not the more you post, the more you grow with stories. It’s you could post a million in a day and nothing will change in terms of your followers. Maybe some people will unfollow you, because that’s a little bit much, but they don’t help you. Don’t help you grow at all. They are a way to nurture relationships with your existing followers. They are a way to build trust. And so I say, with your Instagram Stories, focus on documentation rather than creation. So you should never be curating an Instagram story, editing a video for an Instagram story, opening Canva or some sort of graphic designer to create Instagram Stories graphics. No, all of the Instagram stories should be created right on the phone that they’re about to be posted on, whether that’s you as the entrepreneur or the content team that’s actually creating the content. But stories are meant to be a window into the daily life, showing off the values, showing off the the personal side of the business, or the the personal brand that the account represents. And with stories. There’s a bunch of other strategies we could talk about for sales and maximizing views, but ultimately they’re not for growth.

Brad Weimert 37:17
Yeah, well, let’s, let’s talk about that specific thing, because there are, I’ve heard that before, right? And still, when I’m looking at stories with people, I think I get a couple different sort of paths. One is like, are you going to post another fucking picture your food or coffee or balcony or feet or whatever, myself included, by the way? Or am I going to get a bunch of you know, reposts of people validating the quality of your product, or some loose sales pitch, or some multi step thing about an event you have coming up, etc? So how do you juggle the narration of your life in sort of a behind the scenes view of you and using it as a mechanism to sell or to convert? Yeah. The

Brock Johnson 38:03
wonderful thing about Instagram Stories is, as people know, they expire after 24 hours. 24 hours after you post it, it’s gone. And so you can have a different strategy every single day of the week on your Instagram stories. If your goal on a specific day is to build trust, let’s say it’s Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and you have a launch that’s coming up on Friday. So Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, you’re going to, you know, make sure people know who you are. You’re not just going to post what you had for lunch and the picture of your, you know, the sweet jump you did when you were snowboarding, but you’re going to talk more about your values. Maybe you’re going to talk about how the healthy lunch that you were eating relates to your business. Maybe, if it’s me, and I’m posting a sweet picture of myself doing a jump, I’m going to talk about how building this business for myself on Instagram has allowed me this opportunity, right? And so I’m going to, or maybe I’m going to talk about how this scary thing was, it was a challenge. Now you have to challenge yourself, right? I’m taking these things that are maybe a little bit, or not even maybe a little bit. They’re definitely outside of my niche, and relating them back to my niche. But I’m building trust. I’m talking about my values. I’m showing off what I’m doing and building those relationships, letting people get to know me a little bit more. Then if Friday comes around and it’s launch day, what I’m going to do is, first of all, I’m not posting anything on my stories on Thursday. Thursday, my stories are completely blank, nothing on my stories on Friday, on launch day. And the strategy I’m about to describe is the strategy to get maximum views, the most possible views on your story. And of course, I don’t care if the most possible people view what I have for breakfast, but I want the most possible people to view the launch right, to view that promotional story for whatever it is I’m selling. So again, Thursday, the day before, nothing on my stories on launch day, you’re only posting one story. The strategy that I’m about to describe is called the STD strategy. It’s named that because you won’t forget it. If you post an STD you will get the most possible views. S stands for single. I already said that just one single story, the T stands for text heavy. So there’s gonna be a lot of text on that story. It’s not a video, it can be a photo, but there needs to be a lot of text, like two to three paragraphs worth of text on the story. And then the D stands for something we talked about a while ago, which is DM automation. So it’s a single text heavy story, and at the end of it, at the bottom, the call to action is not click this link or swipe up or go to my bio, the call to action is reply with the word blank, and I will send you blank this strategy, the STD strategy, is how you get the most possible views. And I use it multiple times a week, two to three times a week, whenever I’m promoting a freemium a lead magnet, a new webinar that we’re hosting, or any sort of product or launch that’s currently going

Brad Weimert 40:49
on, text heavy, because it encourages people to hold the story. Bingo is perceived as

Brock Johnson 40:54
engagement. Bingo, it’s perceived as engagement it extends the watch time of that story, and also from the consumer perspective, it allows them to read or consume at their own pace, where we’ve all seen those talking head Instagram Stories, where you could be saying the same things to the talking story that you would have typed out, but because you’re saying it, there’s no way for me to speed up. There’s no way for me to slow down. There’s no way for me to rewind, besides starting the whole thing over. And also because Instagram gives us 60 seconds, most people fill up that full 60 seconds they take all the time that’s allotted to them. And so it’s exactly what you said a moment ago. People are saying blah, blah, blah, when blah would have been enough. And so that text heavy story can communicate the exact same idea, but it does so in a much easier to consume way.

Brad Weimert 41:42
Okay, this is the interruption where I’m supposed to take money and let somebody else advertise on the podcast, but I don’t really want to do that, so I’m going to remind you that I also own easy pay direct.com and if you’re a business that’s accepting credit cards or needs to beyond the fact that we can do a rate review to save you money, beyond the fact that we give you dedicated account reps, world class customer service, world class technology, and can actually optimize the way you accept payments online. You should understand why we have 1000s of people a year come to us off of platforms like Stripe or PayPal, and why they prefer easy pay direct. You can check us [email protected] forward, slash b, a, m, that’s epd.com. Forward slash bam. How many people listen on Instagram versus consume mute with no audio?

Brock Johnson 42:35
Another great point here. Less than half it used to be that 80% of people were watching Instagram on mute with their sound off. The most recent numbers is that it’s still less than half of people actually unmute and turn on their sound. So more than half of people are watching on mute with their sound off. And so that’s why closed captions are important. That’s why text and subtitles and captions in general, are super important for getting your message across, specifically on Instagram, Tiktok is very different.

Brad Weimert 43:03
What are the stats on Tiktok? I’m surprised that anybody listens to this shit at all. Like 95% of my consumption on Insta is without audio, and I feel like for most people like they’re going about their day and they don’t know what else to do with their life anymore, because they’re just used to touching their phone, so they start scrolling and the audio is not on, because that would be hugely disruptive to the room.

Brock Johnson 43:27
Yeah, yeah. So I agree. I’m the same way Tiktok. I don’t have the exact stat, but it’s most people on Tiktok are watching with sound. It just kind of goes back to like our normal ways of interacting with and using the app, but still on Tiktok. Also on Tiktok, there’s automatic closed captions, which can be turned on and auto generated by Tiktok, so that you don’t have to like manually add them to the video, which Instagram doesn’t have an automatic subtitle feature just yet. And so on Instagram, that’s why it’s always important to like just manually add them and take that extra

Brad Weimert 43:59
step. What has changed on Instagram in the last two years? So you’ve, I mean, you’ve built your audience quickly on Instagram. What’s different today than before, and what do you think is coming?

Brock Johnson 44:10
Yeah, Instagram is a massively different place today than it was a few years ago. Not just to talk about what are people interested in and the kinds of content that is performing, but the biggest change is what a lot of people have called the tiktokification of the Instagram algorithm. And what this has essentially done is it has devalued the follower. Instagram now cares about how many followers you have and who follows you much less than it used to. It’s again this shift that I talked about earlier, where social media is becoming less about the social and more about the media. Now there is a growing pushback. There is a growing amount of people who want to bring the social back, and I do believe that focusing on the audience and focusing on the social component is a great way to build trust and build a loyal, engaged community. But we also have to recognize the space that we’re playing in. We have to recognize. The rules of the game that we’re playing, and the current rules that we’re operating by is one that has been heavily influenced by Tiktok. And the reason that you can go so viral on Tiktok is because Tiktok doesn’t give a damn about how many followers you have, who followed you in the past, or who your followers are interacting with. Tiktok says, if you make a good video that people are interacting with, we will show it to more people. And so Instagram, for the longest time, hasn’t been a content driven algorithm. They have been a social driven algorithm. They’ve been an algorithm that’s really primarily weighted and cared about who follows you and how many followers do you have, and what are your followers interested in today, and all of those different like human to human metrics, but now Instagram is increasingly showing posts to more new people. They’re increasingly saying, We don’t care if you have a million or 100 followers on Instagram, if you’re making good content, we’ll make sure the right amount of people see it. Now it’s not perfect. It’s definitely somewhere in the in between. It’s not fully tiktokified yet, but there is a growing number of viewers that will be on each of your posts, specifically on each of your reels, who don’t follow you, have no idea what your business is, or have never seen you before. And so when we’re creating content now in 2025 and moving forward, we have to really create with this in mind. We have to be aware that Gone are the days where our followers are seeing our posts, or even that most of the views on our posts are coming from our followers. Now, a lot of the views on your posts are coming from non followers, and so it’s important to add additional context, to simplify, to reintroduce, to dumb it down, and to increase the entertainment value, so that that new viewer who’s discovering you for the first time is actually going to be interested to follow and watch more.

Brad Weimert 46:48
We seem to move from as you mentioned. I like the way that you framed it, of it being attention versus an attention based platform. Tiktok being an attention based platform versus a social platform, and Instagram being a social platform, but moving towards attention based. If Instagram cares more about attention and views right now than followers, what do you think is going to happen in the next year or two with Instagram?

Brock Johnson 47:15
I think it’s going to continue down this path where attention is the ultimate driver of the social media economy. I believe that the Instagram follower rate, or the number of followers that you’re generating per view, is going to continue to go down, which is something that we’ve seen over the last four or five years. Getting 10 million views in 2020 you’re going to get a lot more followers than getting 10 million views in 2025 that there’s a lot of different reasons for that that aren’t just algorithmic. A lot of them are just human driven. And earlier I mentioned this, you know, growing pushback where people are craving the social side of social media. They’re craving connection with each other. There’s a growing amount of people who realize, recognize that, as you mentioned a moment ago. You know, people are addicted to their phones. They’re addicted to the scroll in 2020 it was like, Hey, I can’t leave my house anyway, so I might as well just scroll in 2025 I’m like, Hey, I’m recognizing the unhealthy habits that I’ve built over the last five years. And so I think that more niched down, more small and intimate communities like sub stack, like school or Kajabi or stand store, or just like these private, intimate discord and slack servers where people can have, maybe not 100,000 people, but they can have 100 super fans. I think that that’s going to really grow in popularity over the next five years. The attention economy isn’t going anywhere. The social media platforms of Instagram and YouTube and Tiktok, where people are going viral and there’s millions of people addicted to scrolling every day. That’s not going anywhere. But I think that there’s going to be this rise in private, small, intimate communities that are really going to perform really

Brad Weimert 48:55
well. I’m glad that you just said that. So the line was, the attention economy is not going anywhere. We are in the infancy, but certainly full swing into AI content production. It’s going to continue. It’s going to get better and better. How do you think the production of AI content is going to impact the attention economy and impact the way that the algorithms look at it?

Brock Johnson 49:19
Yeah, it’s nuts. I think you know, what I’ve always been saying about AI is, on one hand, it is scary and terrifying, and on the other hand, it’s super exciting and, you know, just empowering. It creates a lot of accessibility for content creation. We are rapidly approaching a time where it’s indistinguishable, like I remember when the first AI videos came out, and they were laughably funny, and then a few months ago, it was like, wow, the expensive tools can create AI videos that look like they’re, you know, Hollywood level films, and now they’re not the expensive tools that only the, you know, elites can can afford. Now it’s becoming so. Affordable and accessible that damn near anyone can create AI content, whether that’s AI text generation, AI photo generation, or now almost AI video generation, that’s indistinguishable, that is basically real. And so I think that there’s going to be an even greater divide between consumers. The people who, you know to use the real word, are addicted to scrolling all day long. And the content that the algorithms are producing and that the AI is able to generate is even more addicting and keeps them even more glued to the consumption. And then there’s going to be the creators. There’s going to be the people who are leveraging these AI tools to create better content, to create more content. And ultimately, that’s what I’m trying to encourage people to do, is AI ain’t going anywhere. The Attention Economy ain’t going anywhere. And so as a business owner, you’re playing with one hand tied behind your back if you’re not using these AI tools. And I know it can be overwhelming, I know it can be scary. I know it can feel like anxiety producing because there’s so many different tools that we need to learn every single week. But what I’ve been telling people is just be aI curious. You don’t need to be an expert. You can hire the experts, but at least be aI curious.

Brad Weimert 51:11
I mean, you just hit it. There’s so much going on week to week. When somebody talks about their experience with AI, you have to follow it and say, How long ago was that? And if the answer was a month ago, even then you should probably reevaluate if you if you’re holding beliefs around something from a month ago, much less two months, six months, right? This stuff is changing rapidly today, as of June that I just found out, it was June, June 2025, what’s, what’s the right way to put AI into your video, and what’s the wrong way to put AI into your video? And I want to talk, I want to talk video specifically with that, yeah, yeah. Really

Brock Johnson 51:49
great question. I’m a big fan of using AI for the simple sort of administrative parts of video, like adding closed captions, maybe editing certain parts, coming up with and or adding B roll to your video, where I personally draw the line, and I think I draw the line here because it just doesn’t look or sound all that great just yet, is maybe you’ve seen this, people creating AI clones of themselves on social I’m not a big fan of that, because I just don’t think the technology is quite there yet. And also, when you create, like, let’s say I created an AI version of Brock, an AI clone of Brock, and it’s a full video, animated, you know, fully created, fleshed out reel. People can compare that to every other reel that I’ve previously posted that has the real human Brock in it, and they’re going to notice those differences. And it’s going to be, ooh, this doesn’t quite look great. It’s going to be a little bit of the uncanny valley vibes that we experienced with like the early days of AI photos, where nowadays AI photos are to the point where they’re almost indistinguishable. So that’s where I personally draw the line. But in terms of creating graphics, in terms of adding B roll, in terms of doing administrative tasks like captioning, closed captioning, editing up the video and refining it, I think that it can really expedite that process.

Brad Weimert 53:10
How about leveraging it to engage your audience in comments?

Brock Johnson 53:16
I’m open to that. It’s not something I’m personally doing, but it’s definitely something that I’m open to, because it’s important to me that my audience feels seen and heard and validated, and that’s why one of my first hires, when I really started blowing up on social, was someone to respond to comments and interact. But you know, that’s that’s a role that can take basically 40 hours a week, responding to comments, interacting with DMS, answering messages. And so what I’ve been approaching, and what I’ve been not just considering, but what we’re actually moving towards now, is more of a hybrid approach, where the sort of frequently asked questions, the the easy responses, where someone says, oh my gosh, I love this, and the response would just be, thanks so much. I appreciate it. Those sorts of things can be automated so that a human doesn’t have to manually type them out every single time. But the more nuanced questions, the more intimate questions, the more long, thoughtful paragraphs that people are sending me, either myself or someone on the team can manually provide that human touch and respond. And this ultimately goes back to what I believe is really where us humans can fit into this whole AI economy is that we have an A level of empathy and a level of care and connection that is ultimately going to be, you know, only available from human to human. All right, let me

Brad Weimert 54:34
back out for a second, because I read a story about you that was super interesting. And that was that in 2017 you sold $6 million of sunglasses for eclipses on Amazon. Yes or no,

Brock Johnson 54:51
that was a different Brock Johnson. It is a terrible No. It’s a terrible name, naming thing where he even like he. The I call him the old Brock Johnson. I don’t know if he’s still online. He looked in 2016 how I looked in 2016 and we had the same name, and it’s such an adjacent industry. For a number of times, I’ve been asked about him. I need to have a conversation with the guy, because it’s crazy.

Brad Weimert 55:17
You do? Well, I’m not cutting that out. So let me ask you this, if you wanted to sell $6 million of eclipse glasses on Amazon today, how would you leverage social to do that?

Brock Johnson 55:27
Yeah, I would definitely leverage Tiktok, first and foremost, to gain the attention and the eyeballs. And I would employ a lot of UGC creators, and UGC just stands for user generated contents that it’s not just me creating content, but there’s actually some great platforms that I’m spacing on the names of right now where you can pay people, not necessarily based off their conversions, like the typical affiliate model, but you can actually just pay them based off of their views that they’re generating on those videos. And so it’s a really powerful way to grow exposure and also provide people, provide these UGC creators with an income for themselves. So I would do that, first and foremost, I would also use a lot of those videos on Instagram. On Instagram, I would go hard with the quantity of posts that I’m putting up. Something we haven’t even talked about today is trial reels. I would post as many trial reels as I can, as many as Instagram permits me to, on a daily basis, and then as soon as possible, I would start using DM automation to actually convert all of that attention and all those eyeballs, not just to followers, but into actual customers.

Brad Weimert 56:36
Well, let’s, let’s hit on trials quickly. And I’ll, I’ll, I think, I think we’ll hit on it through this. Maybe not. You can tell me where I might be wrong. But for somebody that is starting from scratch today, and let me position this as this is probably an entrepreneur that has friends, family, some clients, following but a small audience, and they want to grow their Instagram for the sake of business. What mechanisms would you start with? Yeah,

Brock Johnson 57:05
when you are first getting started, I would just be really candid. You know, if you have, let’s say, 1000 followers on Instagram, because you’ve had an Instagram for seven years, and the most of your followers are buddies from your local area, your family and friends, be really candid of like, Are these people legitimately going to support this business and engage and hype me up and thus I could continue running this account? Or should I just start start a new account? Excuse me, I think that it can be really scary, and most people hate when I say this, but I think a lot of people, more people than they would realize. It would benefit from starting a brand new fresh account on Instagram, because just think about engagement rate, right? If you have 1000 followers, and most of them are family and friends, just people you’ve met over the years, they might not be super cheerleader friendly, they might not be the type to engage and hype up your new posts. So all sudden, you start making posts about this new business that you’re launching, and it’s getting crickets from your audience. It’s from your audience. It’s never going to reach a new audience because of that. So you might want to consider starting a new account, but regardless when you first start that new account, or whether you’re starting with the existing account, scale up the frequency, as we’ve talked about, and then as you start to grow, or even before you start to grow, start posting trial reels. So trial reels, it’s a feature that was released in December of 2024 and it’s a feature that you can post a reel, and the reel is guaranteed to only reach new people. So it will not reach your existing followers. Translation, it will not spam your existing followers. It will not overwhelm your existing followers. And according to our recent studies, you can post about 20 to 25 a day before Instagram cuts you off. Was actually kind of surprised to learn that Instagram does cut you off. It’s usually very rare that they don’t allow you to post certain things, like they don’t put a limit on most forms of posting, but on trial reels, they limit it to, I think, about 20 to 25 per day. And again, these are reels that are going to reach 100% new people. They will not affect your algorithm. They will not affect your followers. And so what I tell people is, whether you’ve got a million followers or you’ve got one follower, post as many trial reels as you can, because it’s just it’s that limited at bats, right? It’s like you’re in the batter’s box. You can swing at every pitch. It doesn’t matter if you make contact. It doesn’t matter if it’s a base hit or if you swing and miss, you can’t strike out. So you might as well, just like, keep swinging as many as you can. And if you get a base hit, if you hit a home run, awesome. If you don’t try again tomorrow, you can’t strike out. So just keep swinging.

Brad Weimert 59:36
And from there, if you have a trial reel that pops, do you push that to everybody else at that point?

Brock Johnson 59:43
I don’t. I usually recommend not. You could, if it really pops like, if it really goes viral, you could. I’m glad you brought up that feature. It can either automatically be done like you can turn it on in settings that after 72 hours, it automatically switches from a trial reel to a normal reel, or you can manually upgrade it so. Uhm, when you do upgrade it, it shows as if it was posted when it was posted as a trial reel. So if I upgrade it right now, but I posted it three days ago, it will say posted 72 hours ago, and it won’t show up at the top of the feed as if it was a recently made post. It will show up, you know, buried below all the other posts that I have posted since then. And so in like 98% of cases, I say, don’t upgrade it. If it does go mega viral and it’s reaching like literally over a million people, then sure upgrade it. But you know, Brad, I’ve posted well over 100 trial reels since December, probably a couple 100 by now, some of them have reached millions, and I haven’t upgraded a single one of them. And so it’s probably best to just leave it as is.

Brad Weimert 1:00:41
Could you take a trial reel that did well, and instead of upgrading it, repurpose it, take it, drop a second off or something, or literally, just take the same video and post it?

Brock Johnson 1:00:51
Bingo, yep. That is something that I definitely have done, and that is something that I would definitely recommend doing. That is also one of the benefits of trial reels, is you could test out a few different hooks. You could test out a few different captions. You could, you know, AB, test your reels, and whichever one performs best that can be the one that you ultimately end up posting. But, yeah, I would recommend posting it as if it was like a new first time. Posted it original reel, rather than upgrading it.

Brad Weimert 1:01:16
Love that awesome man I have realized that we have spent very little time talking about monetization of your personal business model, but I think that’s okay. Maybe we’ll leave that for another time. Where do you want to point people?

Brock Johnson 1:01:35
The best place is MySpace. Myspace.com, Instagram is the best place to get connected with me. I’m very active in my DMs. If you DM me, you will get a response from either me or one of my team members, probably me, though, but Brock 11 Johnson is my instagram handle, but that’s also where I am on all other platforms, Tiktok X, Facebook. Brock 11 Johnson, so if you hit me up,

Brad Weimert 1:01:58
I’ll get you back. Love it. Brock Johnson, thank you so much for carving out the time. Appreciate you. That’s a wrap for today’s episode. Please subscribe, and most importantly, leave us a review. It takes like 30 seconds, and it makes such a big impact, it helps other people find us also. You might not know this, you can watch over 100 episodes of beyond a million with guests like Grant Cardone, Wes Watson and Neil Patel at beyond a million.com.